Rosé + Thorns
Join Dr. P. Ryan and friends in unpacking the highs and lows of life, culture, and relationships—open conversations with no off-limits topics.
Rosé + Thorns
Round + Round (feat. @_saint.smith_)
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One thing about me—I LIVE for a “full circle” moment. On this episode of Rosé + Thorns, I spoke (and LAUGHED) with the talented SMITH. I’ve been following his work for quite some time and I’m grateful for the chance to kick back, ki ki, and dive into his music, his life, and his journey! 🖤
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You can follow and keep up with SMITH on Instagram and Twitter.
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Hey, love folks, and welcome to another episode of the Roseanne Thorns podcast. I am P. Ryan and I am so excited. I am here with a singer, a creative, and a high key genius. Okay. Everybody, welcome, Smith.
SPEAKER_02Hey, what's going on? What's going on? Thank you for having me.
SPEAKER_03Thank you for coming on. I'm like kind of freaking out and just handling my anxiety as needed.
SPEAKER_02But oh, I don't know why, man. You know, I would love to do stuff like this. Thank you so much again for having me.
SPEAKER_03My pleasure. So, to kind of kick things off, how are you feeling today?
SPEAKER_02I'm feeling centered. I'm feeling good. I'm feeling uh inspired. And you know, sometimes when you have those long to-do lists of things to do, that sometimes that inspires you, like, okay, I wonder how much of this I can get done. So I'm feeling I'm feeling really good today. How about yourself?
SPEAKER_03I'm feeling good. I love that centered piece.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, yes. This week sometimes say sometimes with the weekend, that's what it uh it does for me. You know, after a long week, just like what I think you're about to say, sometimes the week gets kind of crazy and long, and you just need you know that weekend. So that's where I'm at.
SPEAKER_03This week definitely had hands for me. And so now that the weekend is here, I'm feeling good. I'm feeling good. Not hands. Oh no, it beat me up if you only knew. I'm weak. I love that. Yes. Now, the way we kind of kick things off is by having the guests tell the people about themselves. So tell the people about yourself.
SPEAKER_02Oh my God. Okay. Um, so I would just say that I'm a jack of all trades, um, with specializations in music um and artistry. So that's kind of where I am now. Um, I'm I'm kind of like a comedy kind of person, so I'm always cracking jokes. I'm kind of outrageous. Like I'm always cracking jokes. I'm always like just, yeah, I'm pretty outrageous, I would say. And um, I just I just do some of everything. You know, this is like one of the hardest questions to get because it's like I just do so many things and I wear a lot of different hats that it's kind of like I don't know, I don't really know. But I am I am artist, I'm a music artist, I'm RB. That's kind of why I'm here, probably. So I'm an RB artist. Um, I'm here in Atlanta now, so you know I we have that connect. I'm sure we'll be able to see each other face to face soon. Um, I'm I just came from LA, uh, spent some time in LA originally from the DMV area. So um, I mean, that's just probably where we'll start. I'm pretty sure that they'll get to know a little bit more about me as we go, but that's where I'll start.
SPEAKER_03That was perfect. That was perfect. And yeah, you did mention you're in Atlanta. Hey neighbor, how you doing?
SPEAKER_01Yes, sir. Yes.
SPEAKER_03And I hope that, you know, as the vaccines and all that good stuff comes out, we will be able to connect. Um, and so that kind of leads us into the how we know each other, right? So I really appreciate you for being on here because you are really one of the first interviews where it's giving hashtag I don't know her, right? So it's like Oh my god. You're the first kind of like stranger that I'm interviewing. But okay, while you're a stranger, you're not that much of a stranger because I've been a fan of yours for the longest, from before 2015.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Thank you, thank you. And you know, I hate to break the fourth wall or whatever, because I know you probably like to keep this under wraps, but no, you can you know, I was I was very surprised when um when I was looking at kind of like your run sheet that you had sent me, some of the stuff that you had kind of brought out about how you knew me, knew of me, or like you know, our married. And I was like blown away by that. So I was really excited to chat with you about that.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, so you have just inspired me from be again before 2015. I remember first finding your social medias, right? And I think you're an example of the way words have power. So I remember you just tweeting about your love for Faith Evans. Yes, and I'm just like, oh yeah, I like Faith Evans too, cute. And then, next thing I know, I'm watching you on a stage singing a Faith Evans song with Faith Evans right next to you. Yeah, and I'm like, wait, wait a minute, what's going on here? Then let's fast forward a couple months, a couple years, you're taking pictures down with Faith Evans. And I'm like, you really can't be God given.
SPEAKER_02I mean, I'm telling you, you sure can't. Favor ain't fair.
SPEAKER_03It ain't fair, it ain't fair. In addition to the Faith Evans uh kind of interaction, you've done mashups, right? So, like there's this um artist out there, Amorphous, who does these kind of DJ mashups. But when I think mashups, I think you, right? Like you take songs that like people would not think can go together. And it's just like, how did you create thank you?
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Um, that came from a space where I just be honest, I didn't have any money to create the music that I wanted to create. And so I knew I still wanted to be active and still be creative and still do stuff, but I just didn't have the money to like hit up a producer and like, you know, get stuff made. So that was just my way, you know. You can always find you tracks on YouTube, the instrumental tracks on YouTube. And um as we'll talk more, I'm a church boy, you know, tried and true, born and bred. So um a lot of that training came from like church with leading praise and worship of my father's church. And you know, sometimes it gets to the points where he's like, you know, telling me, if y'all sing that song one more time, I'm gonna sit you down. So I was having to every praise. Oh, yeah, every praise, friend of God, you know, all these songs. You can't, he's like, if I hear that one more time, I'm gonna go off. So that kind of came from you know, church where I was having to, you know, these people are pretty much volunteers, so they come with whatever it is in terms of just like rehearsals and stuff. So I was having to find creative ways to mash up some of those songs to just make them fresh and interesting for like the congregation and kind of keep myself out of hot water while I was like dealing with people that just halfway wanted to rehearse or halfway wanted to come. That was the way that I did that. So it just translated into my, I guess, my secular artistry or my regular artistry or whatever. When at that time I was like, I know I want to be creative and I'm fired up and I'm inspired, but I just don't have no money. So that's where the mashup thing came from.
SPEAKER_03And we love it, right? I love how it also led into and kind of kept you in between the moments where you released dope art, right?
SPEAKER_02So yeah, thank you.
SPEAKER_03Your singles, thank you. I don't like that shit. Wonderful, yes, flames, wonderful. I know we're talking about round and round a little bit later, but do it again in tapestry. Okay, okay, yeah, be wearing it out. I be wearing it out.
SPEAKER_02That's so funny. You taking it like you taking it back, and even like what you mentioned, like the flames, and I don't like that shit, those were the same kind of things where I had just gotten enough money to get my own little setup, and I still can't have a producer, but I can find these tracks online, strip them, and I can make my own originals to them, and that's kind of where those came from, too. So that little broke period 2014, 2015.
SPEAKER_03Listen, we can talk about the broke period, okay? Some of us are still in it.
SPEAKER_02I'm telling you, I'm telling you, I mean, but I was like strapped. So yeah, but I mean, I just tell people all the time, like, the good thing about that is as long as you keep it in the perspective of no matter what you have, like, you know, money or no money, resources, no resources, your gift is intact, like your gift will be held in place until you are ready to do bigger things, your gift is not going nowhere. You know, God is the only one that could take that away from you. So it's just a testament. Like, I had no money, but I could still create something that you is impactful all this time later. You're talking about it now. So, you know, that's that's big ups, you know, to the to God.
SPEAKER_03Listen, listen, you just encourage me because if you only knew, okay.
SPEAKER_02I'm telling you, I'm telling you, that gift is like um okay, I'm I'm I swear I'll be trying to not take it to church if I'm gonna have to, because um Donald Donald Lawrence got this song called Um God, you are my God, something like that. I'm gonna send it to you. But basically, in that song, he says the lyrics is through my transition, you held my position. So he was just making like a statement like while we're in our transitional periods, like God is like holding us down, He's holding our spot, like we're not losing nothing, we're not missing nothing, He's holding us down. So I just kind of always think about those times with that music, like just remembering like, damn, I was down bad, but I still was playing stuff out and like trying and pushing and like you know, being creative. And that's just what is impactful for me, you know. I love that.
SPEAKER_03That's really jacking me up, and I'm just gonna step away from the outline a little bit. Okay, yes, come on, come on. Because that encourages me so much. You know, I am on this academic journey right now. Yeah, yeah, yeah. These almost 30 years of just being down to the schoolhouse, I I love music, right? And I've always been asking God, like, how does music fit into this thing? And throughout this academic journey, you know, there've been no funds, a lot of times there have been no resources, there have been no and we'll talk about this um, producers and stuff, like really understanding your vision and it's sewing into that. And then at the same time, you see people who have kind of really just devoted their all to music, and you see them just climb and climb and climb, and it can make you feel sometimes that this music thing is not for you. Yeah, for sure. I appreciate you for those words, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. I mean, it just like I say, I mean, obviously, I think there's this thing about the giftings, which is one thing where you could use your gift in a very a variety of ways. Um, and it but it just doesn't, it doesn't go anywhere. I mean, it's like almost like riding a bike, you know. I I haven't ridden a bike in a long time, but I could probably get on there and just, you know, pop wheelies and all that after 20 minutes, you know, God really holds that. And he, uh I just just even take it deeper, he holds it for his plan, you know, for it. You know, so sometimes we're kind of thinking from our lens, like, you know, I want to see this for myself. Or like you said, sometimes that comparison where I see other people just really being able to devote their all their time or energy to this, and you know, where do I fit? But I mean, um, one thing that's really, really kind of blessed me over the course of like the last year is like seeing Tabitha Brown, where she tells her story about like I'm 41 years old, and like the stuff that I dreamed about as a child is just now coming to fruition and the impact that she's having. I mean, people talk about all the time, and it's like, you know, God waits for when it's time, you know, He gives it, He gives us the gifts and allows us to cultivate it and practice and you know work through it and uh be comfortable with it. And then when it is time for us to fulfill whatever plan he has for us, I mean, I as much as you believe that, then it will become it would become revealed. So I I think I encourage you. I I know that uh I even like in my story, I've had those patches where I'm like either giving up or just not inspired or feeling you know, looked over and things, but God redeems that, you know, when it's the time. So definitely you'll get your chance.
SPEAKER_03And we'll definitely get there, right? And yes, what I love about this talk with the gift too, you know, the scripture says your gift will make room for you. And so along your journey, people have noticed you sowing those seeds, people have noticed you working on that craft. I think about the relationship you've even cultivated. I talked about Faith Evans, but even B Slade, some of the gospel girls know him as Tony. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, yes, yes, yes. He's another one.
SPEAKER_03Go ahead. You're gonna share that.
SPEAKER_02Oh, he was. I was gonna say he's another one where like that manifestation, that one kind of happened behind the scenes though, because um some years ago, uh now this is not this is not something that I'm giving as like my own theory, but years ago, uh a friend of mine, she just was like, So deep, you know how you meet friends that just they just be on it, like tap in. So she was like that for me. Like, I just was learning so much for her from her, and she always was telling me, don't tell anybody what your your fears are, and don't tell anybody what your greatest dreams are, because you don't never know who's doing what, like under the surface and behind the scenes, and what you could be doing, like you know, it's just opening yourself up to criticism or haters that really could be using their energy to you know cancel that out. So that's why ever since she told me that, I'm like, I don't know if that's true or not, but I'm a very private person anyway. And so that really resonated. So it's very rare that I'm like tweeting, oh, I want to see this myself, or I want to be here, I want to get a Grammy. You know, I kind of do that stuff in private just so that I can just make sure that if it if it don't happen, I'm not embarrassed. And you know, some of those people that you see online, it's that should be annoying where it's like they're constantly, oh, I'm gonna, I'm gonna have a man, or you know, I'm gonna, I'm um, it's like it's just constant. It's like I don't want it becomes your brand. And it's uh, I don't want to hear that. So I just was always kind of afraid of that for myself. Um, but nevertheless, to bring that topic back, you know, with Be Slave, he was at that point, he was just at that's where I was where I was just like, I really just I don't even want to want to work with him, I just want to know him. Like he really spoke, you know, like you said about the church experience. Like he was the first kind of person that I really, really saw myself, you know. Um, some people you see where it's just like, oh, okay, I can see people, but he was like, he was me. Like when I saw him, I knew that he was me. And so um, I was really, I was really happy to have a relationship with him. I mean, we still talk all the time. I just talked to him like last week. So I mean, I'm grateful to have like that. But people that I really liked and really grew up on and was trained on that guy allowed me to know them. It's it's so great.
SPEAKER_03And then all of those pieces led to this very moment when you recently released your single round and round. Now, yes, a couple things. Okay, I posted round and round on my story when it had just dropped, and I also posted it with like a little Nene Leaks doing her little dance. Yeah, I just want you to know that's literally how I dance to the song every time it comes on.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I'm with it, I'm with it, I'm with it, I'm with it. I love it.
SPEAKER_03Such a fabulous song. Secondly, I attended your listening party, and I was just sitting there like a proud auntie, just like, yes, this is it, this is the moment, and this is gonna catapult you, I think, to further greatness. And I'm just so excited. And so thank you. As we think of that title, the song Round and Round, I was hoping that we could have a journey round and round, the different uh spaces of your life, the different phases of your life that led to this moment. Um, and so thank you for coming on the show again. Let's jump into this.
SPEAKER_02Okay, let's so round and round um actually was another song that was kind of birthed in that mashup um space. Um, I know we kind of talked about it in the listening party, but round and round originally the track for that was um Maya Fallen or Running by the Far Side, whichever one you like. So I had kind of originally written the lyrics to that, um, to that song. And of course, you know, it had to do with some nigga shit, of course. Oh, going back and forth with somebody and just like arguing back and forth and never being able to uh kind of see eye to eye. And so the lyrics were very easy to write because it was like a situation I was going through. And um, it's it was one of those ones that had kind of sat in the vault for me. Like I knew I might do something with that at some time, but um when I initially planned to, it just wasn't the right time. And then um, so you had kind of like mentioned like the producer thing, so I ended up making my producer. I sent him like the video that I had recorded of the original, like little one that I put on Instagram, and he did kind of come with the track that you know now. Uh and I was like blown away. So I was immediately able to get the start, get it started working on it. And um, I think just like sometimes putting stuff away like in a vault is good because it gives you like a time to like live, you know, do other things and come back to it. And I know for sure if I had released this when I originally wanted to, it would not have been the same song, it would have been like, you know, 10 levels less. So that was like a great lesson for me. Like I said, learn that it's not always gonna be like what you think it's gonna be. But if you sometimes take your time, you're gonna be in a good position.
SPEAKER_03You know, that's a lesson that we learned from Beyonce. So I'm here for it.
SPEAKER_02Absolutely. Oh my God, I learned so much from her.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, yeah. Now let's actually go back in time, right? Before we talk more about round and round, I would love to just get to know Smith from the early years and even from like some of the things I was able to observe peripherally. So let's start at the church house. Okay, let's start there. I'm just gonna highlight. I noticed I just said right, and I saw your tweet yesterday where you're like that is so funny.
SPEAKER_02I'm so weak. Sometimes it just be that, oh my god. Like what triggered it was because somebody at work does it all the time, like in our in our meetings, and I'm always like, oh my god, like if she does that one more time, I'm gonna scream. I'm gonna scream.
SPEAKER_03I'm gonna try to be be aware of it.
SPEAKER_02I'm weak. I'm so weak. That is hilarious.
SPEAKER_03So you mentioned a little earlier on that you were raised in the church, you're influenced by gospel music. For sure. Can you give us a glimpse into who Young Smith was down to the church house? You already mentioned being a praised team leader.
SPEAKER_02Yes, that came a month, that came later. Um, so I was kind of obviously one of those kids that I'm sure many know uh that was always at church for everything. So, like Wednesday was Bible study, Thursday was rehearsals, Friday was prayer, Saturday. You're setting up the church, Sunday was church. So look, I was always there. Um, and so obviously it just like influenced a lot of, you know, and informed a lot of my personality and just my experience. Um, so I was just always there. Um, also I'm a PK, both of my parents are pastors, and so there are that was obvious big part of the reason why I was always there, but I was always very active in church too. So I didn't really have a choice. I had to be a part of this ministry and that ministry. Um, and so I think that that was always just um a part of like my early life. And then of course I have two younger siblings, so they were, you know, right doing the work of the Lord with me. Um, and it was just always fun. But music was always something that I was good at just naturally. Um, I'm not trained, like I tried learning piano and I it didn't stick. Um, it was just pretty much a church training. So when I think about like my younger times in the youth choir, um, and just like kind of working my way through. I posted a picture that I had my mom had found of me like singing in the youth choir before. So it's just like those little memories. But it really was a training for like music. I really just wish that it was the same in that regard. Church ain't the same, you know, church is not the same from when we were coming up, it's a whole different thing. But I mean, the training that even with you, I'm sure, like just the with this, even if you for anybody that was that came up in the those 90s, you know, just the you know the music was just different. The training, even if you were in the choir, even if you were just like in the choir, like the youth choir, you wasn't really taking it serious. You got some type of training that um you could catch a tune. All the 90s girls that you came up with us can hold the tune in the car, you know, or they can pick their part, you know. So I think that that was like most um impactful for me. But I also I always had a desire to um, like I was at my parents had me like in private school, so I was like going to not not only private school, but like a Christian school. So it was very like um rigid in that way. My parents were very strict, and I always had a desire to like listen to RB and to like I always pictured myself. I never like really pictured myself in gospel, I always kind of imagined like RB. And so I had my mom's brother, my uncle, he was a musician in New York, he played guitar and he sang and things, and so he always used to kind of like funnel stuff to me, like on the sneak. And he was the one that gave me my first production software, um, where I was like making beats and like creating music at like 12, 13 years old. And that was kind of like the marriage of that all that the grounding and training I had got from like the choir and you know, all that music training I had, plus now this technical side, which both are still very prevalent in my life right now.
SPEAKER_03Oh my goodness. Okay, so so many pieces are just getting me excited. Yes. As you kind of talk about your journey, I just think about how I can relate to so many of those pieces. So my parents aren't pastors, well, you know, my daddy's an elder, you know, so I'm I'm used to that reality. Same thing, same thing structure, right? Um, and just like going from the church house to Christian private school and how that rigid structure, both in just like how you live your life, but then also in music comes about. And I can't help but think about um a group that we stand, the Clark Sisters, right? And how that rigidity was kind of also embedded in their life as well. Yeah, absolutely. Bring up the Clark Sisters not just because I'm a fan and you're a fan, but I kind of consider you a little Dorinda. Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02You know what is so funny? Okay, so one of my good friends, when he listened to Round and Round, he made mention of Dorinda. Like he was like, Oh my god, you sound like you was he was like joking. And I started to get like low-key offended because I'm like, you know, how did you get that? But I used to I thought about when I was when I was growing up, when I was in high school, and I didn't always sing for real. Like I sang in the choir because I had to, but it wasn't singing was never the thing for me. It was more like instruments and production and stuff for me. It wasn't until I was like 18 where I realized like people, somebody was like, You can really sing. And I I I knew I could like again carry a tone, carry it to whatever, but I never really knew my voice had like a tone where it was like I could actually sing. So But I used to listen, I swear to God, I used to listen to John Legend and Durinda Clark Cole constantly when I was like in those formative years, like really discovering my voice, because in my real chess voice, I have like a little bit of a rasp. And so I kind of um aligned myself with those two. And they were who I was like training on. So when I end up thinking about that, I'm like, oh, that's so of course they that would be present because that's who I listen to. You know, I listened to Lorinda so much. She was like, I listened to her even more so than Karen at the beginning because I just was so I I kind of like um try to even like emulate her, like the way her stylings and stuff. So it makes sense. That makes sense for sure.
SPEAKER_03What about her draws you to her?
SPEAKER_02Um oh, that's such a like I'm like, I how do I condense that? How do I condense that? Because no, really, I just her her voice vocally, like I said, I think I felt that her voice was more similar to mine. You know, my voice was more similar to hers if I was to pick any of the sisters just because of like that, the tone and like even sometimes like the the intention behind the vocal, like the way that she approaches the approach and more so. I just was I'm always like drip dro I'd dripped into that. And then you know, I love a sassy old sister, uh uh auntie, like I love, I live for black women. So like I just I'll just love that about I'll just love everything about her.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. When I think about gospel artists or even people just like in the faith in general, I am drawn to people who seem real. Oh my god, yes. A realness about Dorinda that just takes you in. And then when you think about the technique too, I love I love all kinds of voices. You know, I rock with Jackie, I rock with Twinky, rock with Karen, of course. But I love when someone can communicate that they know their voice and can stay in that lane and take you to places where you wouldn't expect to go.
SPEAKER_01Yes.
SPEAKER_03And I think Dorinda does that when you listen to 100%. Like, what's the song? I got a reason. Okay, yep. Nobody but God. When she just hits little notes, I'm just like, ma'am, did you do that?
SPEAKER_02It's that training. It's like, you know, some of that stuff cannot be taught. You know, it's like some of that stuff is just straight up, like, like you said, that authentically you. Yeah, I love that. I love that.
SPEAKER_03You talked about intention. And that brings me back to your listening party for round and round, because when you were talking about how you approach music and just like the different choices that you make when it comes to music, you really position music and you said it out your mouth. You're like, music is my offering. Right. Coming up from the church, like music is my offering, it's what I'm giving back to God. So there are certain things that I do, there are certain things that I choose not to do. How do I say this? With the understanding that music is your offering, kind of like what is your intention behind the music that you make? Um and the choices that you make.
SPEAKER_02I think it just varies from project to project, or you know, just from season to season. My intentions have been different, like you know, from here to there. Uh, but I think the just the the general consensus overall is just excellent. Um, that's always my intention, just to be excellent and always to do better than my last project. So, you know, um that's kind of like it goes hand in hand with also trying to do something that I have not done before on a record. So, you know, funny enough, like I am a student of RB. Like we talk about like the Far Sisters, we talk about like Faith Evans, but for real, I love RB music. And so I'm always taking notes, like, oh, I could do that, you know, I can spin that in my own way. So I kind of like have a mental list of things that I want to do, like either it's a vocal or like you know, things that I haven't done. Um, so like for instance, one of the things that I barely ever do on records in the intro, I really vocalize, like I never really vocalize in the beginning. I just come either with the hook or the verse, whichever one first. But with round and round, I hey, yay, yay, you know, I did that at the beginning. That was just something I never had really done. So I'm like, okay, just adding things that I never done. So those are generally like my intentions. I want to be better than my last, I want to be great. Um, but then you know, you have like your individual ones for the project. So, like I said, some vary for projects. So for this one, I knew for sure, like, I'm like, yo, I killed this joint. I worked with my ass off on this, I want to chart. So that was my intention. So, like, as I was kind of setting my intentions daily or like having my conversations or like even self-conversations, I was constantly saying it now. Between you and I, like I said, I don't be telling everybody my stuff because if it don't happen, then whatever. So I really had been writing down and saying that I was going to get number one. I'll say, I'm gonna get one, I'm gonna get a number one. I want a number one. Now, obviously, if I I didn't get number one, and obviously, if I had said that, I don't think anybody would be hating on me like, aha, that's why you didn't get number one. You said you was, but it could happen, you know. So you don't, I just keep it private, but nevertheless, I really wanted number one, and that was like one of the things me and Johnny and like me and Keith, like my best friend, we were just kind of constantly saying, like, okay, let's get that number one. Number one, we were just saying it. So uh that was like a personal intention for this particular record, but who knows? Like, you know, I'm not I'm it's it could still go number one, it could still be a number one record because it may not be number one iTunes, but it could be iTunes, it could be number one somewhere else. You know, we say number one, but it could be number one somewhere else or on another chart or something else. So I'm very uh I'm still very optimistic and hopeful about the track. You know, sometimes those singles don't have as much of a shelf life as like you as anybody would hope because it just come and go, it's just one song. But I I do have a good feeling about that and all my songs.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, I'm optimistic about it too. And I love how you're kind of communicating that these intentions also need to have some flexibility, right? It may not be the number one down to the iTunes, but it could be somewhere else, and also pulling from Beyonce, lessons we can learn from Beyonce, yes, keeping your business to yourself, right?
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, yes, yes. I love that because it's just it, I mean, for me, it's important. I think there are some people that um can be very that are very candid about their personal dealings and it's effective, like it's a way that it just it works for them, it's effective, it connects. Um, just for me, I don't it just does it's not it's not uncomfortable for me. So I just kind of stay within my comfort zone in that regard. But uh, you know, like I said, it's so many people that do different things that y'all I don't feel like nobody's missing out by not knowing my business or not, you know, what I give, I feel like it's it's enough like to keep people engaged and have fun and good times. So yeah, for sure.
SPEAKER_03And when you keep your business to yourself, it also gives you the room to do that other part that you mentioned, right? Which is raise the bar in comparison to yourself. 100% right in comparison to the works that you've already put out there. 100%. Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. So we touched on the church house. Can we play a little game? Oh, absolutely. Okay, so one of the things I know about you is not just that you have this gospel influence, but you be cooking down and baking. Oh, yes, okay, yes. If you all are not following Smith on his social media handles, which we'll share at the end of the show, follow him and go. Please do always cooking something, always baking something. Always. I wanted to kind of combine the gospel or the praise with some pastries, right? And so I'm gonna name some artists, okay, and I'm gonna ask you to thinking of their like catalog or some of your favorite songs from them, what pastry would you make?
SPEAKER_02I'm literally about to scream on the scream.
SPEAKER_03I'm so would you like to do your favorite scream?
SPEAKER_02Let me hold it to the end. But yes, I am okay, yes. I'm ready. I'm ready.
SPEAKER_03I only got three. All right.
SPEAKER_02Okay, who you got?
SPEAKER_03The first one, we already talked about her, Dorinda.
SPEAKER_02Okay, so this is um desserts that I I would associate with them.
SPEAKER_03Or compliment with their catalog or whatever.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. Okay, so immediately they came to mind with her with Peach Cobbler. I don't know if Dorinda could cook or if she bakes, but I just feel like she could make a slam in peach cobbler. I'm just that's the first thing that came to mind.
SPEAKER_03I stand.
SPEAKER_01I love it. With or without ice cream, with ice cream for sure. With ice cream, for sure, for sure.
SPEAKER_03All right. This second one, half of them are problematic, but you know, they got some good songs. Mary Mary.
SPEAKER_02Oh, Mary Mary. Um, I'm getting like strawberry shortcake vibes from them. Like I'm getting just something light and fresh and air, you know, just still good. Like, oh, for the girls that's watching they wait, like, you know, she's saying they always talk about, oh, I can't eat that. So I feel like a nice strawberry shortcake is is what I think about for the Mary. And just for the record, the problematic Mary is my favorite Mary. I just, you know, she's another one I get flagged for. Like that, you know, that Dr. Heavenly vibe, like that, she's villain, but I do love her.
SPEAKER_01She is.
SPEAKER_03I'm dying. Last one. Okay, we got it. And I had some reservations about pulling this one, but I just had to do it.
SPEAKER_01Who you got?
SPEAKER_03Miss Let God Be True Quickly. Kimberell. Kimberell.
SPEAKER_02Oh my God. Okay, so Kimberrell. I feel like Kimberell, she's a pound cake girl. She's a pound cake girl. She, she, she, I mean, she is a pound cake girl. You better have her piece of pound cake wrapped up after the engagement. She's definitely that for me.
SPEAKER_03Plain or lemon?
SPEAKER_02Plain. Plain. Plain vanilla pound cake. She don't get any extras. She just did plain. Plain for her. Pound cake. That's what she gets.
SPEAKER_03I love it. I love it. Me and Kim Brook got something in common.
SPEAKER_02I know for real. That is my vibe. And you know, I'm that's what I'm kind of like. No, but I'm good for a good pound cake now. I'll go put a pound cake. Now we in Atlanta. I was about to say, now we in Atlanta. Now that I know.
SPEAKER_03I'm ready.
SPEAKER_02It's going down. It's going down. I got you. I got you. I promise you. I promise you. I love that game now. That is so fun.
SPEAKER_03Yes, I'm glad you liked it. So we went through the first round. Let's go into the second round of your life. Oh, okay. Which is the pause. Okay. I mentioned that I've been following your journey since 2015. Um, I know you started off in Maryland. We have that connection. Shout out to University of Maryland. Yes. But then as the years were going by, I saw that you just picked up and moved to LA.
SPEAKER_01Okay.
SPEAKER_03Yes. What made you what inspired that move? What what drew you to LA?
SPEAKER_02Faith Evans. Faith Evans. So I when that time that you're talking about, where she brought me on stage, that was in DC. And that was our first time meeting. So she had actually let me know before via DM. We were kind of DMing back and forth at that time. And she let me know. She was like, when I come to see, I'm gonna when I come to DC, I'm gonna pull you on stage. So I didn't really think she remembered that or she was really gonna do it, but she had the show in DC and she pulled me on stage. So that happened. Um, and so after that, she was just like, yo, you killed it. I'm so glad that you could come. She was like, I have an audition. I have an audition in LA for background singers. Because for a while she did all guys, where it was just three guys, background singer sports. So she said, I'm doing an uh audition. I would love for you to come out and try it. So I did. It was like in October, I went and I only had enough uh PTO for one day. So I could fly in and fly out, and I did it. I went and I killed it. I killed that audition. I I I never say I be killing stuff, but that audition I killed, and I didn't get it because I didn't live in LA. Which I'm like, girl, why you didn't tell me that beforehand? But nevertheless, I didn't get it because of that. But that's when that that 24 hours that I spent in LA or less than it just was like, I'm gonna live here. I will live here. And everything after that was just me trying to get my money right and get the connections and get my stuff together so I can move to LA. So again, by that time, by the time I it had just picked up and moved, I had been thinking about it and talking about it like to amongst my friends and my family for like two years.
SPEAKER_03Wow, wow, and so you see how long things take to actually manifest. Yes me just being a fan in the audience or just like okay, one day it's this, one day it's that. What's happening? Oh my gosh.
SPEAKER_02Right. I had been really talking about it.
SPEAKER_03What was LA like when you actually got there?
SPEAKER_02Amazing. Everything that I read everything that you think of when you think of LA, it was that. It was just it was beautiful, it never rained, it was just a vibe. Like I and you know, I'm in Atlanta now, but it's not because anything bad happened in LA or because I just hated LA. I love LA. If I have ever, and let me tell you what now, if I ever get like the real money, like whenever God blessed me to have the real money, the real cash that it takes to live comfortably in LA the way I'm living in Atlanta, I will go back. I will absolutely go back. I love L so much reclaiming. In the name, yes, in the name, reclaiming it because it's just such a wonderful, beautiful place. And like even beyond, I think, just the physicality of it, just the way that the government is, um, the government there, they the decisions they make for the citizens, and like the way that we have access to just so much, like in healthcare, like it just was a beautiful experience and awesome, that awesome coming of age because I moved there when I was 25 and I'm 31 now. So I was there, you know, for that time. You you kind of closing out your 20s, going into your 30s. I mean, best case scenario for me. So I love LA.
SPEAKER_03You better come of age during that time. Come on now.
SPEAKER_02Come on now. Come on. I mean, and also too, like, you know, this is just something that I stand by. It just knowing what we know now about just my upbringing, how rigid it was, and y'all really just got the the surface of the surface on that because my parents were crazy, like they did not play. So it was just like being able to break away and move across the country and just develop my own identity, my own thoughts on things, like you know, really live my life just how I want to and how I want how I felt I should. It was just so freeing. So, I I mean, now that I'm back on the East Coast, I miss my parents, I love my mama, I go see them as much as I can. But you know, I'm I'm my own person, I'm my own man. So I think that really helped with that. You know, my time there really helped with that.
SPEAKER_03That time away is so necessary. And although my parents were kind of down the street, going to University of Maryland was that kind of time away from me, and also moving to St. Louis for a stint, just far away from the East Coast. Okay, wow.
SPEAKER_02Yes, I didn't know that.
SPEAKER_03Listen, from but what is it, Caterpillar Caterpillar? It's a butterfly. That's I know that's right.
SPEAKER_02I know that's right. I know that's right. I know that's right.
SPEAKER_03No, I call or like label this time in LA the pause, because even though there were so many good times, you mentioned, you know, you spent 25 to 31. That little cusp of 28 to 29 for a lot of people, I know can be a hot ass mess. Yeah.
SPEAKER_01Yes, indeedy. Yes, absolutely.
SPEAKER_03You mentioned that musically during that time, there was just moments where things were just not panning out. You at your listening party, you mentioned that like there was even a moment where you thought about just like doing other things where you did do other things, right? Can you give us a peek into like that block? What was kind of hindering that musical process or that artistry in that moment?
SPEAKER_02Um, I think it was a lot of things, but I think primarily what comes to mind was just knowledge. Like my I think um what I had done thus far had gotten me to like what I would consider my ceiling at the time. And you ever feel like sometimes where we feel like we're having a block, it's a block, but it's not like a lateral block, it's like a ceiling. You know, you hit you hit your ceiling where the knowledge that you've had and experiences that you've had can only take you to right this point, and you can't go further. So many may experience that like on a job where I've been at this job for four years, I've learned everything that I have to learn. I'm not getting promoted, I'm doing the same thing. And so I was kind of in that position where I was like spinning wheels, and so that was creating like for me what that block was. I was really hitting my ceiling, and so it was it was hard because it's like you know, what am I supposed to do? Like, I know I'm talented, I know that I can sing, I know I can put a song together, but it's not getting me anywhere. And then as we talked about the the money piece of it, I think that people just take for granted, like that's why I'm so so so grateful and so blessed to have had the support for this record that I had, because it takes a lot of money to just even do the bare minimum. And uh me, I do everything myself. When I tell you I'm indie, I do my own recording, I do my own engineering, mixing, mastering, artwork, video, you know, I do everything just because I'm like, I don't want to keep giving people money and they got to do my project the way I want them to do it, and now I'm I can't do another one because I done gave you all my money because you could be out thousands, okay?
SPEAKER_03You hear me? Um oh I hear you, I see you, I see.
SPEAKER_02Thousands, you be out thousands, yo. And it's just that's that for me, I just did not want to do that anymore. So um, that was another piece too, just not having the money to do what I really wanted to do, and then also having that feeling where even if I did have the money to do this and put it all into this, would I get any type of return that's tangible and that I could take to the bank? And the answer is probably not. So, you know, that's kind of all the lens where I approach um a lot of my work, and that's what keeps my work good. Because if I know like it's a money thing, or if I know that I'm gonna I'm looking for the return, I'm just gonna do whatever it takes to do that. But you know, knowing and kind of going in the I'm in the I might not give return in this in the financial way, it just allows me to take my time and know since I'm spending my money anyway, since I gotta spend this cash to do this anyway, I might as well make it the best that I can make it and make it just you know, spend the time to make it as perfect as it can be. Uh, so I think you know, those kinds of things contributed to that period though, just like that feeling limited and then not having the money, you know.
SPEAKER_03I was like, I love how you highlighted that you could invest so much, so much, so much, but you might not get that return. So many people would be discouraged off of not getting that return and be like, all right, music ain't for me. Not even so many people would be. So many people do get discouraged, right? Oh, 100%. They wind up committing their lives to so many other things. Yet here you are, regardless of the return on the music, you are still pushing out amazing things. What is music to you?
SPEAKER_02It is what is music to me? It is like air, it's like breath, you know, it's it's that much incorporated in my day-to-day, in my body, you know, everything is music. Every, you know, I'm finding you could drop a metal pan, and I'm like, what keeps that you know, like it's just so much a part of like what I do. Um, and I think that that is what continues again to push me to make it because I like it. You know, I love to make music, I love doing harmonies and sitting in the studio like I love to do that, and it just um it just makes my my expectations, you know, like I said, of return. It just doesn't make them less, but it just kind of tempers them for me so that like I'm always having this either way it goes. Yes, I know I did my shit. So, you know, here it is. And I could tell you, I we could go real deep, and I could tell you about like how I be feeling about you know, legacy and after you gone and stuff, like this stuff is gonna stay. Yeah so you know, I think about like Tony Thompson from um from uh high five where he's passed, but I like delivered. I I discovered his album two years ago and just was freshly inspired. It's like he's been gone, but it's like you don't know what your legacy and what the stuff that you're doing now, even you know, we look for so much of a right now return, like at while I'm alive, but some of our reward is gonna be after we gone and you have to be okay with that. You're gonna have to be okay with that. Like long after you're gone, somebody 15, 18, gonna discover your work and just be inspired anew, afresh. There's it's gonna inspire so many people, move so many people, move the culture in ways that we just don't expect. So that's why I say, like, it might be number one, but maybe use number one when I'm gone. Like, you know, who knows? That's what I just what I said is gonna happen.
SPEAKER_03I just love how you talk about this tempering of expectations. And you know, when I think about my relationship with music, that's just where we at. That really counts as it, right? Because I think, especially in undergrad, I was surrounded by artists and I have seen their artist's path go different ways. Some people are signed, some people down with Quincy Jones, some people doing what they need to do. Okay, I know that's right.
SPEAKER_02Okay.
SPEAKER_03And here I am in a little studio, frying chicken and rested. Okay.
SPEAKER_02But okay, but let me ask you, can I ask you real quick, what I guess I knew that you were like musical, but I didn't know it was like this. So, like, what was what did you ever want to do? Like, I'll I'm like now, I'm like taking my interview back after someone, can I help?
SPEAKER_03Like, what's the vibe? In my head, I thought that I was just gonna be out here writing, maybe giving a sickening background, then maybe making my way to the forefront. But in another, and I found myself doing a lot of like stage stuff, um, going to doing like little cabaret stuff here and there. So just you know, putting the work in as I could while balancing like this pursuit of psychology, right?
SPEAKER_01Gotcha. Gotcha.
SPEAKER_03But right now, I'm in a space where I'm like, I love music. My expectation is not to become Beyonce or to be in somebody's forefront necessarily. I love writing, I love words, I love backgrounds. And so my goal is to just like kind of explore that area and to really just make music that I want to listen to and dance to. And if other people want to come on further. Ride, you're more than welcome to.
SPEAKER_02I like that. Okay, cool, cool. Well, let's let's let's sync up on that, like, you know, at some other time and like figure out what that looks like. Because what I'd be telling people, and like if some some of the folks that were also at the listening party was like, can you stay after and like you know, talk to me because what you said like really resonated? And I'm like, Yes, you know, there's always ways to like plug in, there's always ways to like find a way. And that's like one of my intentions with trying to do the um with when I did like the um Indie Artist Toolkit class last year, where I was just like, people are constantly asking me about like their journeys or where to start. Um, how do I do this? How do I get these resources? And I'm just like, I always want to share and I always want to like you know help out as much as I can. That's just like one of my complexes. So um I I would love to, you know, chat a little bit more with that about that with you and like then just kind of find out like if there's any way I can just even help map that out or you know, give you a plan so that you can start achieving some of that stuff. Because it once you get started, it's like you started, you're in the game. And um, sometimes getting started is like the most daunting part, or like getting back into it after you've been you know gone for a minute. But you know, I'm I'm all ears, so I'll I love to chat with you about that. Of course, I receive it.
SPEAKER_03I'm super excited about that.
SPEAKER_02Of course. Yeah, and like I told you, like, you know, God is not it's not gonna be lost. It's like God doesn't give us things that are not going to be used, you know. How people be like, Oh, I don't want to, I don't want to leave this herb with nothing, leave with nothing left. You hey, God is not gonna let it happen. God is gonna use you however he wants to use you. So if you're not if you're not willing to surrender that portion of it, he will allow somebody else to do it, but you're still gonna be used, you're still gonna he still give you other things, like you know, we have a human nature and choice and stuff, but before you gone, you're gonna serve your purpose. And so I think you know, kind of thinking of it that way, because it's already written, you know what I'm saying? We're not doing anything that's not already transcribed in the walls of history, you know. So it's not where we're not coming up with doing the inspirations that we get and the new ideas that we get, are just it was time for it to be sparked, but it's been so I mean it's not gonna be wasted, and you'll have all the stuff, the writing, the background. I mean, you're in Atlanta for God's sakes. You will have a chance for sure.
SPEAKER_03I didn't know that I was gonna come and receive a sermon.
SPEAKER_02Come on now, come on now. I it just is what it is, it is what it is. I gotta I gotta walk in and I gotta be honest with you because um, you know, otherwise, like we just like I said, spin wheels, and that's no fun, you know, especially when you don't have to. So I definitely am looking forward to whatever that whatever that looks like for you for sure.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes, yeah. So while that block was happening though, tying it back to our oh, tie it back in again, bring it on back in, bring it back on in. You were still creating some amazing stuff. All right, let's not sleep. You were pushing out a jewelry line, right? And the pieces were really cute. The only reason why I'm not wearing one of your pieces is because your girl was broke at the time.
SPEAKER_02Okay, I know it. Hey, I feel it, I feel it.
SPEAKER_03And I I kind of described you as a genius earlier on in this. Thank you. I really appreciate that talk. You dropped a podcast, and when I tell you it was the funniest thing I had listened to in a while. So I was a commuter, I would commute from Maryland to Philadelphia on each day of the week. And I just know on like Thursdays, Friday on Fridays, I think it was, y'all would drop the episodes, you and your friend Keith. Yes, yes, the podcast was called the blog. It was he Larry, yeah.
SPEAKER_02Thank you, thank you.
SPEAKER_03What was going on in your mind knowing that you were doing so well and all of these other things, but music was still kind of um it was in a weird way affirming.
SPEAKER_02Um tweeted the other day, like, and I know this is not everybody's testimony, so I know it's a blessing. I'm not, you know, bragging, but I really am like a jack of all traits. I tweeted that I can really, I can do any and everything, and I can do it well. Where if I put my mind to something, if I decide I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do it. And so that's where kind of like the goal came from. That's where the uh the blog came from, the podcast came from. And it just, I was just like, wow, I can really do this. And so it affirmed me in the way that I knew whenever music is ready for me and whenever I'm ready for it, I'll come back and I'll be good. I'll be straight. And I would have these little moments where I would be able to prove that. Where um, for instance, like the theme song for the blog, that was something I just recorded. And I was like, oh, you know, damn, okay, this sounds good. And like I'm I can do this, you know. So whenever I'm ready, like I'll be ready to come back. And so I I engineered and produced the blog um using obviously the same exact tools that I would use to make music. So the mic and my computer, my software, I used all the same stuff. So even in that time where I was not working on music, I was still being trained. I was still like doing sound design, you know. A big part of the blog was our sound effects. That was a big part of it. So it was teaching me, it was teaching me sound design. You know, I had never done that stuff before, but it was teaching me sound design behind the scenes. So that's where when we get into like round and round now, a lot of that in that those things in in the songs and stuff that comes from my blog base where I was learning sound design and learning how to pan stuff from left to right and how to tell a story with sound. And so it's none of it's lost, you know, none of it's lost, none of it's lost.
SPEAKER_03Oh, you are jacking me up because what's right here in my chest is do nothing without intention. Nothing, nothing, nothing, and everything that you do just connects and really puts you on the path to fulfill that end purpose that you were meant to do.
SPEAKER_02For sure. And I mean, even if you like, even if you are just at the bare minimum, not like not using any intention to do anything, you're just haphazard, which never is the case. You I mean, you're always doing something, some kind of intention behind what you do. But even if you're doing in the very bare minimum, like I said, it's already written, it's already worked out, so it's gonna be fine, but it just with doing with intention, just connects you. It it what it does is it changes you and it connects you to a different place and it gives you it, it allows you to harness that power. Because I mean, I don't know how many times people got to tell us, but your words do have power. The words that we say, yeah, they do create our reality. And so, you know, just harnessing and realizing, like you said, the faith admin stuff, the base slave stuff that was early in my adulthood, where I'm like, oh, I could I dreamed about this, I said this was gonna happen. I wrote this down and it happened. So it begins to train you, like, oh, then I can have anything I want, I can have $10,000, I can have, you know, whatever. And so I think that um that that moment just really just affirm me, like, okay, when I'm ready and when I'm set, I will come back and do it. And so nothing's ever lost, nothing is ever, no time, no experience, it's all working together to your end goal for sure.
SPEAKER_03Teach us, yeah. As you said, we are all in this state of this space of living in like a microwave success type of if it didn't come yesterday, it's too late, right? If it didn't come by 23, like, girl, you're not making nothing. Oh my goodness, thank you for that reminder.
SPEAKER_02Right. Can I give you another one that I just really you're gonna really be jacked up by this one, y'all? I swear you are. But this has been my jam, and this is how I I have comfort. So, you know how like everybody's always like, um, what would you say to your younger self? Like, what would you tell your younger self? And you just kind of like, oh, I would tell you to just keep your head up like that. So how I'm we so a practice that I've been doing for like the last like year or two years, maybe it's probably like two years because I was doing it in LA. But I've been talking to my older self, I've been talking to my older self and asking my older self questions and asking my older self advice because I when I was really heavy into this manifestation stuff, like I could go, like we could do a whole other episode of this manifestation alone. When I was really getting into the manifestation stuff, I was watching this video on YouTube that it kind of explained it as how we look at our life from like this point and to this point to this point, but really it's like linear. We already have lived our whole life pretty much, and so you can ask and access your older self-like, what should I do? What did what did I do to overcome this? And it's so comforting because your younger self can't do shit for you. All you are you're doing for your younger self, but your older self, your older self already exists. So that's how sometimes you can get a glimpse of what you look like when you're older, or like you know, you have these these deja boo moments is because you already had the experience, and so you can you can tap into your 55-year-old self, you can tap into your 40-year-old self and ask questions and get answers. You know, that's all the part of it. So we have so many resources available to us that are just in you know what we have in our basket. And you know, I'm telling you, start asking. You what you if you're trying to figure out like how does music all tie in and with my career, my academics, ask your older self.
SPEAKER_03We both agree that when COVID lightens up, we're gonna meet. I'm just letting you know that after I get my pound cake, I'm throwing hand because you mess me up.
SPEAKER_00You mess me up.
SPEAKER_02I'm weak. You didn't have to do that. I'm weak, I'm weak, I'm so weak. I love it, I love it. I'll take them.
SPEAKER_03Yeah, wow, thank you.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, take that, take that, do that tonight. Ask, just ask because at the very least, you can just not get an answer, but you start tapping in, but you're gonna get answers, I promise you. Yeah, because it's because it's you, so you're answering your own self, but it's just like I say, it it's more of a linear experience that we're having where you know you can jump back. It's I I'll send you more stuff on that too, but you can ask your older self questions and get advice.
SPEAKER_03Older self, do you have a man?
SPEAKER_02Come on now. Okay, valid, valid, valid, valid.
SPEAKER_03All right. I mentioned the genius through the blog, through all that you're doing. You mentioned that you're somewhat of a comedian. I'm gonna take the somewhat off and say, you are so hilarious. And if people aren't picking up on that from this conversation alone, I'd love to tell you, girl. Right. Thank you. One of the things that takes me down that you're doing right now is again on Fridays, you hop onto your Instagram stories and engage your audience in something called ask a manager.
SPEAKER_01Yes, ask a manager prior.
SPEAKER_03Where you'll have people ask you questions, kind of like troll-esque questions, and you will kind of give the response as best you can. And so to kind of break up this phase, the pause, and our next phase, I just wanted to play Ask a Manager with you in this very moment.
SPEAKER_02Oh my God. Okay, let's go. Let's go. I'm ready. I'm ready.
SPEAKER_03I went out and polled the people, and there were three questions that you know I got from all of my staff. Yeah. Okay, okay, okay. One of your customers had said the store's supposed to open up at eight and y'all stay opening at 10 a.m. Do I need to take this to corporate?
SPEAKER_02I would say yes, take it to corporate because it would take me longer to contact corporate than it will for me to open this store. So I would say yes, take it to corporate and see see how far you get, take it to corporate. That's that's my answer for that there. Okay. See how my voice even changes to fit into the manager. It's like another voice that you have, it's have to be a little bit more aggressive in that tone when you're when you get to the manager.
SPEAKER_03Okay, I hear that. Yeah. Now, some of the other consumers, the customers, they they got a little sassy, and I wanted to just read some of their comments.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, that's that's yeah, I'm like, y'all getting a little crazy now. Okay, yeah, yeah. Yeah, let's hear it.
SPEAKER_03I heard you got promoted to regional manager. Yes, that's cutinol. But how are you gonna manage the region when you couldn't handle those root employees down to the first door?
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. So, okay, read it to me one more time. I kind of blacked out a little bit.
SPEAKER_03So they said, I heard you got promoted to regional manager. That's cutinol, but how are you gonna manage the region when you couldn't handle the root employees down to the first door?
SPEAKER_02What I would ask this person is you got several kids, right? So I would ask, how you get two and three kids when you couldn't halfway take care of the one kid that you had to start. So you couldn't do you couldn't plat up, you couldn't even put your first child in hair and plaits, but then you're gonna mess around and have a second and third. So that's the same way that you could get elevated and have more children. That's where I can have more responsibilities and be elevated, you know. So don't don't worry about me. That's what I would say to that. That's what I would say to that. You couldn't even take the time to put some plaques. Go home, Roger. Go home, Roger Plaques, and your baby hair, and you worried about why I'm reaching a manager. That's the problem. That's what I would say to that.
SPEAKER_01Oh my goodness.
SPEAKER_03Okay. Okay, this last customer. Who we got? This last customer said, Oh, it seems to be one of your past your past employees. They say you said I could grow at this job, but I'm always getting skipped for promotion. Are y'all hiring down to the regional office?
SPEAKER_02Um, I would say no, we're not hiring for you because we will hire and promote as we see fit. But if you're not showing up on time, if you're not doing your job, if you're constantly getting complaints behind the scenes, you're not cleaning out them fitting rooms, I have nothing for you at the regional office. We we have to stay local before we can go regional. And so I don't believe that we're at that region level here yet. Not yet. Not yet.
SPEAKER_03I appreciate you for being such a good sport.
SPEAKER_02I'm weak. And you know what's so funny about this? So, you know, I had brought Keith on yesterday. You did the same, the same kind of like explanation that you made. I was having to give to him. Like, look, this is how you do it, you know, they're gonna ask you all kind of weird questions, like crazy questions. You gotta pick the question. So, yes, um, that is so funny. I love that. I love that.
SPEAKER_03I am weak. This is so much fun. I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_02Of course, likewise, likewise.
SPEAKER_03So let's get into the third and final stage of this conversation. I've been doing it for quite a while, but I have enjoyed every moment. Me too. Me too. The last phase is round and round. Okay. Okay, yes, sir. All your trials, all your tribulations, all your growth moments, all your seed sowing. Yes, has led to this moment where you release this single. Again, it's amazing, but let's actually get into the actual music, right? The actual music part of the single. Uh this layering. Oh, yeah. I told you I got some hands for you.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03The layering, the harmonies, just your ear, and how you come up with all these different things. Like when I think about the way that you stack your vocals, and this is not me blowing you up at all. Right. Thank you. I've I feel like I've heard a lot of people stacking vocals. Okay. Brandy.
SPEAKER_02You. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Maybe a little Chloe and Hallie and Beyonce in the middle, but that could just be a bias.
SPEAKER_02But I I'll take it. I'll take it. Thank you. Thank you. Even to even be like in the same sentence. I definitely appreciate it. And it's my signature. It's one, it's one, at least one of them. Yeah, one of my signatures, yeah.
SPEAKER_03And I say that because you know, sometimes people's stack vocals can sound real cute when you add in all, you know, the timbrel and harp and all the extra instruments.
SPEAKER_00Timbrel.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_03But you played for us the single and then the a cappella version, right? The stripped version.
SPEAKER_01Oh, yes. Yes.
SPEAKER_03I'm still speechless. Thank you. How do you how do you like come up with this stuff? How do you conceive this? How what's your process in layering and and harmonies and just all that?
SPEAKER_02It's uh it's an equation that I have now. It's it's kind of like a science to it now. Like I have a process to it. It's very simple though. Um, and when you I mean it sounds like a lot, but I have a couple rules, and I'm actually this year, so like talked about my um indie arts toolkit class, but I'm actually going to do like a stacks, like a um a harmonies, the background vocal class too, like an intensive, like a six-hour thing where I really, really show my process. But at the very um, you know, at the very high level, highest level, I would say that the first thing is just getting the melody down. So I always just start with whatever my melody is, which I guess is like the easiest part um for me. And then um I kind of build from there, um, just like piece by piece. But one of my things is just never allowing for a lot of dead space. So that's where there's always something going in and out, and you know, in and out, weeping in and out, because I'd hate like those empty spaces of air where it's just like I want something or there could be something there. You know how you listen to some songs, and it's like, dang, you are you singing harmonies on top? I don't want to give y'all a chance to do that. I want y'all to know that this is what it's supposed to be. So I uh that's just my process. Fill a dead space, no dead space, and you know, start with my melody first, and then just kind of build my stuff around it.
SPEAKER_03And this is bringing me back, again, I'm a fan, to one of your YouTube stories when you were setting up your in-home studio, and you're like, Y'all think y'all could just come up in here and go, hmm, and that'll be it. That can't be it.
SPEAKER_02No, you got to do more, it's got to be more, like, you know, and I'm always like, uh, should I can I go for this? And I'm like, okay, I'll just turn it all the way down so I can keep it in there, but you know, so it's it's it's it's really satisfying. That's the my most favorite part of doing anything. That's what I start with on every single song. And um, I love it. I love doing backgrounds, and that's that's that brandy, that's that Clark Sisters, that's that church, that's that Faith Evans. Faith Evans was like a huge, I mean, she doesn't get the credit for how she layers her backgrounds and stuff, but she was one of that training, be slayed, you know, all these things. The Isley Brothers, weirdly enough, they just it's like all these pieces that like I'm just kind of downloading over the years to where I'm now able to take, you know, a piece of that and make you know, make mix it with my own point of view, because you know I got a point of view too. So mix that with my own point of view and make what you hear, you know.
SPEAKER_03So this didn't just come up out of nowhere. This really, again, years and years and years of influence of study of work. Yeah, in addition to that, this also came about with the collaboration of an amazing producer or a collaboration with an amazing producer.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, yes, Jay, Jay. So that is my brother, man. Like he I couldn't, I I just kind of what I shared in the in the listener party, but I really prayed for him, you know. I really prayed, and man, I mean, it was deeper than manifestation, you know. Sometimes we could be it's so spiritual, we just like call things what they other things what they are. But you know, manifestation is one thing, but I actually prayed, like I prayed to God, like I need a producer that's going to be able to understand me and be able to take you know my ideas and make them happen because like I said, I could never piano never registered, I just never could do piano. Like I couldn't get the hands, the thing with the hands, like doing one thing with one hand and the other another with the the other. I could never get that. And so I just never learned. And so I can do production. Um, like I produced thicker than mine, that was completely my composition. But even with that, like I had like, you know, I it took me a long time. So I just knew that I needed somebody that was from the church because the music I like to make, I need the church chords, I need them jazz chords, I need them RB chords. So I knew somebody that he needed that, but also able to capture the sound. You know, I was like I was joking with you guys, like I was getting all these beat packs from producers and being so excited, and I'm like, this ain't it. And so when I got my first pack from him, I'm like, oh, this is it. This is this is the guy. And so as much as I can, you know, as long as I can help it, I will always work with him. I will work with him on everything, you know. I'm pretty much exclusive with him because you know, like I said, God honored really that prayer that I just needed, I just need one. I don't need, you know, a whole team, I just need one that will be committed and that will really understand me and really feel like doing it because there were other producers that I felt could have fit that mold, but they didn't want to work with me. They weren't thinking about Smith. So, you know, that was a piece too. I want somebody that actually likes me and wants to work with me and like it's interested and invested in my project. And so I I found that, and that really, I mean, that's that's a big piece of you know where I'm at right now.
SPEAKER_03I love that you guys were finally able to collab and create this masterpiece, but just hearing you talk, I have to highlight just a character trait of yours. Despite those rejections that you got from those other producers or them not wanting to work with you, you did not get discouraged.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I mean, I did. Don't let me lie to you. Don't let me lie, I was discouraged now. But yeah, I mean, I think that that was another big piece. That was a piece I forgot to mention, like when we talked about that point where I was like on pause, like when I was in LA and looking for producers, that was a big piece of it too. Not having the money, but also not having anybody that was where I would be like, okay, do I need to pull some more hours at work or you know, I'll make it work. It was nobody that was even worth me like doing all that. And so um, that was a big piece of it too, where I'm like depressed, like even if I wanted to, I can't. So I have to like find these beats online and you know, go on YouTube. And that's not ideal for somebody like me that wants to create originals. So I mean, he's an angel, Johnny. Like, I know you know that his big, big, strong self. He he don't want to be called no angel, but he is an angel, like he is really God. To me to do this music. So that's why it re you know, all these pieces like you talk about, they all come together. And that's why there's so much impact. You know, that's why when you release, people are loving it. And people think it's kind of like, oh, because all the pieces, all things work together for those, you know. So I think that that's that's the big part. Yeah. Yeah. Johnny, shout out to him. Shout out to him. Man, you are this my you are an angel to me. You are an angel to me.
SPEAKER_03Amen.
unknownAmen.
SPEAKER_03Yeah. Now let's put your horn when it comes to the single. Okay. Okay, let's go. Let's go. Since it dropped, there have been so many things, so many accolades that it's achieved, right? So many, so many things that have come about. Just go on ahead and list some of them. If not all of them.
SPEAKER_02Um, okay. So what I think the most uh one that I'm most happy about is charting number seven on iTunes RB. Um, and so I think that that just really blew my expectation, you know, because like I said, I went to number one, but still getting that number seven and seeing it is still like unbelievable. Like I cannot believe, you know, this is me. So that was like the biggest one really for me. And also just really getting the the like my supporters and like my friends and stuff, just really giving me the feedback that they did, just let me know that they really listened to it. Like, you know, you know, sometimes people can read what you wrote or like you know, listen to your song, be like, oh okay, it's cute. But no, when niggas actually come and break the break your shit down, like yo, in verse two, admin it two minutes and 36 seconds, and you did that run. I had to go back, like you know, stuff like that, where it's where I'm like, yes, like you know, people are really getting it. And I think for a long time, for whatever reason, be it my own personal growth, like I like I told you after listening for like now, just now am I feeling like I am at the point where I'm like, yes, this is where I'm this I'm comfortable, I'm coming to my own. So to hear that kind of feedback from people knowing that's what I felt about it, just really affirms me and let me know I was kind of doing the right thing. So I um I mean, like I said, charting, there's been other things, like you know, um people just like but I think most importantly was those two to seeing that seeing my name and seeing my art my album artwork on the chart, and also just like getting that constant, like deep dive kind of feedback from people that I really respect. That's like dope.
SPEAKER_03We love it and you deserve it.
SPEAKER_02Thank you. Thank you, thank you.
SPEAKER_03What lessons have you learned as an indie artist to date?
SPEAKER_02Oh my god, I mean, uh so many things, but I would say, oh, okay. So one that I tell people all the time if you're an indie artist, find a way to leverage your music in other ways that can still make you money. Um, so you know, streaming isn't gonna make you a whole lot of money. Um, even like what iTunes purchases is up to like people to buy it. So, you know, that may not make you a lot of money. But what I mean by that is, you know, I I share with you, I engineer my own stuff, I mix my own stuff. So I found ways, if you know, pockets in the middle where if I need some cash or I wanted to have a little bit extra, I can, you know, engineer somebody's session, or I can do, you know, tune somebody's vocals, or I can mix a song, you know, for $200, $300, you know. So if you're like it, you really want to start making if you really want to make money, I would say leverage, you know, some kind of other part of your artistry or your music expertise to make you some money that's really gonna make you money because the streaming ain't it. That's one. Um, the other one I would say is um be uh excellent. You know, if you hear something in your record that you kind of like, ugh, you know, I wish I hadn't done that, or you know, it's too late to change, as long as it's not too late, change it. You know, make sure because it's once it's out, it's out, you know. It's no it's no going back. And when we talk about like what's telling you about that legacy stuff, it's you have to remember your love, your stuff is gonna outlive you. You know, your music and whatever you put out, whatever you put out is gonna outlive you. So it's if you got time to do it wrong, you got time to do it right. That's what keep me telling me all the time. So do it right, just do it right, be excellent. Um, strive for excellence. Be, you know, I I weary away from the perfect word, but you know, I just I hope people get my attention. Be perfect, be as perfect as you can, be whatever the definition of perfect for yourself, you know, don't kill yourself and don't create a disorder, but be as perfect as you can, be as excellent as you can. Um, you know, I think those two have really just kind of stuck with me, like, you know, on the technical side. Find some other way to make money.
SPEAKER_03I feel so full from this.
SPEAKER_02Me too. I really, I mean, I'm telling you, I'm so happy that you asked me to come on. And yo, like, I think that my first kind of um visual, like, you know, really kind of seeing you is when I started the podcast and when you were doing like the hung up pod at the time, and you know, just kind of like feeling like, oh my God, you know, somebody that gets it. Because we I know we had kind of had small interactions talking about the logistics of recording and how difficult it was and to add it and all of that stuff. And so to see you kind of still doing it and doing it on your own and just doing it your way, like I'm uh my hats off to you. I definitely wish you nothing but the um most success. But I'm definitely glad that I could be on and that I could be invited on because I had a I've been having such a good time. I'm I'm saying had, but I'm like, is it over? Like don't worry, like it's a time or just I really am having a great time. So well, it's not over yet.
SPEAKER_03Okay, okay, good, okay, okay. Complete this sentence.
SPEAKER_02Happiness is oh happiness is my current state. I'm so happy, I'm so full of joy.
SPEAKER_03Yes, yes, yeah, yeah, same.
SPEAKER_02I'm very happy, I'm very happy. Yeah, yeah, very happy.
SPEAKER_03Thank you. Thank you. You're welcome. You're welcome. Now, I know you said you like to keep your business under wraps. Okay, but as much as you're uncomfortable. As much as you are comfortable. Where do you see yourself after this point? Right, you dropped this amazing single, where would you like to go? And also, is the blog coming back? Oh, okay.
SPEAKER_02So I'll answer that first. Probably not. Blog is probably not gonna come back, okay, just because of all that it took, and also because of like I'm so proud of Keith. I'm gonna just plug him, you know. I know it's not about him, but I just want to plug him, just kind of seeing him transition. You know, he's going to law school now, so congratulations. You know, he's really doing his shit with law school. And I think that my goal for us is to still present us in ways where people can be satisfied and like enjoy us in the way that they did with the blog. So that was part of my intention with bringing him on the manager Fridays. Because I'm like, we're such a great duo. Like, I love working with you and stuff. So that when we were doing like the whole roommate court thing, you know, just little fun ways to kind of plug us in. So the blog probably will not come back, but I do see myself um getting back into the podcast space. So I've been like toying around with doing a scripted podcast, um, you know, and you're really using like my sound design experience, like music to really just tie those things together and make a audit, like an odd um, what is it, like an auditory experience, like a show like that. So I think something like that will come down the line. Um, as far as where I want to see myself, I'm gonna do, like I told you guys, I'm listening to party, um I'm gonna do a new um entrepreneurial project. So the gold was like something that I tried and that it worked, but not really how I wanted it to. So I've like gonna take some of that experience. I'm gonna be like selling stuff and starting a business. So that's coming. Um, and I really want to see some success with that. Like great, great success with that. Uh, and then musically, like I told you guys, I'm working on my album. I'm working on my album. I really am so happy about working on my album. This would be my debut. Um, my last body of work was 2012. It was an EP called Christmas in July. So um, that was my last body of work almost 10 years ago. And um, I'm so excited to just be kind of full circle, putting out an album, doing it the right way, doing it the way that I want, um, and just seeing what happens, seeing what goes from there. I know that I'll have success, but um, I just really want to walk on every avenue that I can. Um, and I want to be a legend. I'm gonna be a legend for sure. You know, whatever that looks like, whatever that means, I just want to be a legend. I want to be remembered and known for excellence and just for um helping people and just in in my ways, um, and just enhancing the experience culturally. Um, you know, those kinds of things are what I think about. I don't know what avenue that looks like because so far in my life I've done so many different things and had so many experiences that it's hard to like say I want to be here because I don't want to like discount myself from having some other dope experiences, chasing something one thing. You know, I just want to be free to have every experience that I can. So uh I I I think that's just the best way to answer it. But I'm hopeful that I'll be successful and I'm hopeful that it'll be a great experience and that I'll have you know the best that life has to offer because that's just what I want. And I'd be feeling like since we've even talked about it now, the universe is moving. Like, okay, cool, he said it, let's go. So for sure, most death.
SPEAKER_03And I know you say, you know, we define things differently, like success being a legend. You know, when I think about a legend, it's someone who has impact, it's someone who has influenced others. You there? Thank you. You there thank you, thank you, thank you. All right, so we have spent this entire time chatting it up, me asking you questions. I want to move us into a space of the show called Let's Spin the Rose Bottle. Okay, so I have spent probably more than an hour talking your ear off and asking you all these questions. I want to return the favor and give you a chance to ask me one question. It can be juicy, it can be dry, it can be nothing at all, and we can move on. But if it is something, I have to give you an answer.
SPEAKER_02Oh my god. Um, I'm gonna make it so good. I know it's not gonna be juicy, but I just want it, uh I have something good for you. Okay, this is gonna be this gonna be good when I got you. I got you. I'm scared. So, my question to you, yeah. My I guess my question to you. How much longer are you going to fly under the radar of your greatness and your fullest protection? That's my question. How much longer are you gonna fly under that radar? Now, the reasons I don't know. Here, you know, obviously comes to mind, whatever, but imposter syndrome, that kind of thing comes to mind. But how much longer? When is enough gonna be enough where you say, This is it? I've had it, I am here, I know this is where I deserve to be. I know this is where I work for, and I am here. You know, I want to I want to see that from you, and I just want to know the answer for that because like even in my interactions with you and dealings with you, I'm like, you know, that thing was pretty solid. Like, I know there's something there, and even just with the revelations about the music stuff, which I wasn't even all the way aware of, I'm like, oh, you you you flying under. You flying under.
SPEAKER_03So one thing you don't know about me, I get a little anxious in my heart is racing.
SPEAKER_02You you you you you you flying under because it's like you come on now.
SPEAKER_03So to answer your question, I don't know. Okay, yeah, but I'm trying to make the intention to to not do that, right? To break that habit, but that habit has been ingrained in me for almost 30 years, yeah. Um, so so it's a process of undoing 100, 100.
SPEAKER_02Well, I want to call it out, you know. I want to call out your greatness and I want to I want to call forward your greatness and call, you know, call you to a higher level, you know. What I part of like, you know, my my sainthood that my self-imposed that is that nobody made me, I made myself, but part of my saint is you know, kind of seeing like these this greatness in the people and just kind of seeing this excellence in people that in in a lot of ways, and with you is not the case because you are, you know, like I said, you're a stand-up guy, you do your shit, you handle your business, but sometimes I feel like we fall, we just fly under that radar for whatever reason, and you know, it's just we never see the full realization until like we don't have a choice, but you got a choice, you know. You have you have so many talents and gifts that are very apparent, and I just wanted to call forward that call for it even higher for you and more for you. Um, and I just know that this year is gonna be so fantastic for you. So I I'm I just want I want that for you, for sure. For sure, for sure.
SPEAKER_03I receive it and I thank you. I really do. You bless for me.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes, likewise, likewise. Thank you. I appreciate you.
SPEAKER_03Where can the people find you? You can find me all over.
SPEAKER_02You can find me. Okay, so you can find me on Instagram. So guys gotta write you gotta write this down because it's weird. So it's underscore saint dot smith underscore. So underscore saint dot smith underscore. And if you actually just type in Saint Smith or whatever, you should be able to locate me. But underscore Saint dot Smith, that's where I'm pretty um active. Also on my Twitter, I'm very active. So that's Saint Smith underscore. Um, and those pretty much are the two places that you can find me. I'm still working on my website. You might want to give me a website. I need to get my SEO so I can be found in Google child. But yes, those two places you can find me for sure. And you know, um, as as um, how do you how do you go about because I don't want to P. Ryan, but people have come on the show and said, Patrick, I'm like, I gotta be careful trying to call the first government. But you know, as P. Ryan said, I just my goal is to just have so much fun. I'm always talking about just funny stuff and posting funny videos, talking about the church. So, like, you know, if anything of that resonates with you, follow me. Music, of course, is always on the discussion. So I have a good time. Find me there. Um, and as I continue to do more and just expand, you know, I'll be in other places as well. But for now, those two places are the most optimal.
SPEAKER_03This was wonderful. Thank you, thank you, thank you again, everybody. Go stream round and round and stream Smith's other singles, follow him on the socials. And this has been another episode of Roseanne Thorns. I'll see you next week. Bye. Thank you for listening to Roseanne Thorns, the P Ryan podcast. You can find Roseanne Thorns on Instagram and Twitter at Rose and T Podcast. That's R-O-S-E-N-A-O-D-S- And you can find P Ryan on Instagram and Twitter at I-M-P-Ryan. That's I-A-N-S-E-R-Y-A-S-O-S-O-S-O-S-A-S-I-N-A-