Rosé + Thorns
Join Dr. P. Ryan and friends in unpacking the highs and lows of life, culture, and relationships—open conversations with no off-limits topics.
Rosé + Thorns
Happy Mail (feat. @kelliraiwrites)
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Many center their religious experiences around trauma, pain, and heartache, but something magical happens when we explore the process of healing church hurt. I’m so glad I could chat about church (& much more) with authoress Kelli Raí, who has been instrumental in keeping the fire of my faith kindled. 🖤
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Want to connect with Kelli? Follow her on Instagram. Also, check out her devotional on Amazon.
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So often we sometimes get put in this position to feel guilty when things are good and like the world is shit. Yeah. But that's fine.
SPEAKER_05Feel good.
SPEAKER_06Feel full. You deserve.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, I do.
SPEAKER_06You ready? Rose and Thorns. Hey Love Bugs. And welcome to another episode of the Roseanne Thorns podcast. I am P. Ryan and I'm super excited today because I am sitting down with a woman and an authorist who takes pictures with her iPhone, who sings, who writes, who bakes, who sometimes cooks, and who eats. We love an eater. Everyone, welcome, Miss Kelly Ray. Thank you. Thank you. Thank you for being on here. I'm so excited to just delve into how we know each other, the topics we're going to talk about today. I haven't seen you in this sort of way in such a long time. And so this is so fun for me. I'm honored.
SPEAKER_00Yay, I'm honored.
SPEAKER_06Yes.
SPEAKER_00Big deal. Yay.
SPEAKER_06So we usually start the show off by having guests kind of just tell the people about themselves. So tell the people about yourself.
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um, what about me? I am uh the first thing that comes to my mind is my age on top of it.
SPEAKER_05Come on, age.
SPEAKER_00I am a 45-year-old woman. You don't look it. Thank you. I have three grown children. Um uh one is in grad school, two are in college.
SPEAKER_06Grown.
SPEAKER_00Grown. And um, I will have been married in December. It'll be 20 years.
unknownCome on, marriage.
SPEAKER_00All I can say is God is good. Yes, because without him, this would not be. I am now in graduate school. I am studying to be a marriage and family therapist.
SPEAKER_03Yes.
SPEAKER_00Um, and largely because my last therapy just I said, what program are you in? Because I wanted to be in that. That's how impactful the therapy was. So I'm in grad school. I I'm working at a private school as the registrar. Um, I have released a book of devotionals. I did that, was it two October of 2018? That was a big deal for me because I compiled, um, I used to send out um devotionals via email. And I did it for a long time. And then people were like, you should just write a book. You should just compile these and write a book. And I'm like, well, you get to print them out, and then there's your book. And they were like, no, no, you need to do it. So I finally got them edited and I put them together in a book and I um self-published on Amazon and it was like giving birth. But I'm so happy that I did it. It when I when I hit the button to publish, as soon as I did it, I was like, wait a minute, this is like a journal. This is more like a journal than a devotional.
SPEAKER_03Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Like people get a lot of me in the book, and I'm like, well, it's out there.
SPEAKER_06It's hard work.
SPEAKER_00It is.
SPEAKER_06And when you read the pages of that book, like you can you can feel it.
SPEAKER_00Oh, thank you so much.
SPEAKER_06Oh, we'll get there.
SPEAKER_00We'll get there.
SPEAKER_06Now, before we get there, let's get here, right? Because for those who listen to the show, for those who are guests on the show, you know that before we do this, I send you an outline. I'm gonna throw a little piece of this outline out the window just because you mentioned your journey with marriage and family therapy and how your experience with a therapist kind of led you to pursuing this profession. What were some of the things you got from therapy? I know that's all the way in your business.
SPEAKER_00No, it's fine. So I I'll say that when I finished my bachelor's, it was 2014, 20, 2015, and my minor was psychology. So I always had like a feeling like I wanted to go into it. Um, but then I was like, I'm not going to grad school, I don't feel like it. And I don't want to get a doctorate, and I probably should, and da-da-da, right? Just holding, just putting blocks in my own way. But when I went to my last um therapist was actually doing her practicum work, so it was all free, which was a blessing. Yeah, but I connected with her in a in a in an extraordinary way. Um, I didn't feel like I was telling my co-worker, well, she happened to be the chaplain at the school. Um, and I was talking to her about stuff. I said, Oh, I need therapy. She said, Well, I'm about to go into my practicum and it'll be free. And I said, Let's do it. Schedule me, put me in. Um so one of my takeaways was she helped differentiate me from my relationship with my husband. Like I was too enmeshed. So it's like every choice that he made that maybe like he wasn't choosing me, it would destroy me. And I was I had years of that, like from dating in college through marriage, like, oh, I just I'm just so but she helped me, she helped differentiate me from him. And then um, when we were discussing some of my childhood trauma, she was saying, um, so there's something you told me about your husband when you guys were dating. Um, you said you he made you feel special and blah, blah, blah. She said, When when you were in contact with your predator, when you know, I had a predator as a child.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Too many of us do, and it's sad, but my predator made me feel special, like I was the best person, I was this and I was that. She said, Okay, well, you've applied that to all of your romantic relationships. And that was a that snap for me, and I was like, Oh my goodness. And it was like, no longer were the decisions that my husband made, no longer did they affect me in such a way. So I even got to the point where I was like, man, if he cheated on me, I'd be upset, but I wouldn't be destroyed. Like, I'd be like, I hope that you wouldn't do that, but I'm not gonna set the house on fire.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Because I'd be, I would say, you know, I'ma go crazy. But because I got to such a place where your decisions are your decisions and mine or mine, that was the biggest gift I could have ever gotten. And it helped me transition to being a parent of adults because I don't have the kind of control, you know, when you have little kids, you'd be like, I'm gonna put you in time out. I never did that, I'm gonna beat you behind. Well, you can't do that when they're adults, they make adult decisions, like I'm going on a trip. You ain't going on a trip. They go on the trip, you know. You there's no legal reason for me to say, you know, I can't tell the police that you can't go. So it helped me transition to parenting adults in such a way where their decisions wouldn't destroy me. And I can be, I can be where I am and help them from where I am, but I'm not, I'm not living your life. Yeah. Not that their decisions don't affect me and I don't worry about them, but it's it's just different. It's like we are no longer enmeshed, which is a blessing.
SPEAKER_06This is really jacking me up inside, but I'm just gonna go with it because I'm reflecting on just like how many of us learn to be enmeshed, whether it be with our friends, whether it be with our parents, whether it be with our romantic partners. Oh, I'm so glad you got that gift. Because a lot of us need to be free.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yeah, like I didn't even know, I didn't even go to therapy for that. I went to therapy. Well, I felt like we needed couples therapy, but also I was like, I want to be ready for when my kid for empty nest because I like my kids and I want them to live with me for the rest of eternity. Yeah, I wish we could have a compound and you know, I see them every day. That's you sound like my mother. Yeah. Unrealistic, but I just really like my kids, they're fantastic. Um, COVID was good for me. I was like, oh, yeah, home. So um, and I'm happy that you know, all my kids will be home for Thanksgiving, and they'll be home from Thanksgiving to the end of January. And but yeah, it helped me step back.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, that's a blessing. That's a blessing. I'm so glad therapy gave you that gift, and I can only think that you receive that gift because of the gift that you give others. And so I'm going to go into just like how we know each other. I know that was that was a little heavy, right?
SPEAKER_00That was like you're gonna have me in tears.
SPEAKER_06Melissa, you're about to have me in tears. I'm I'm holding it together.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_06But the way we met is um through church. So, friend to the show, sister in my head and in my life, Dr. Camille, um, and I met at the University of Maryland, and we wound up going to a church in the area in the DMV. And she happened to be a relative of your husband and was just like, hey, this is Kelly, cool, right? And I think since then, you know, we didn't spend every waking moment together. But I will say just the moments that I have spent with you, there's a saying that like people will forget what you do, but they'll remember how you how you made them feel. And I think every time I interacted with you, I just felt kindness.
unknownOh.
SPEAKER_06I felt and the reason why that's like so I think impactful for me is that that church was huge, right? And so what people don't know or may know about me, social anxiety, it's my homegirl. Yeah. And I will, and I think for various reasons, that point of my life, just being an undergrad, you know, dealing with queer identity, like dealing with what the church has to say about that, dealing with how I know church people can be through my experience. Every time I step play, I step foot into a new church, it was just scary. And your kindness, I think just made that so much more bearable, if that makes sense. I'm trying to get my words together without being emotional, but I just I really wanted to bring you on the show and give you your flowers and just say thank you. Um, because that kindness I think has stuck with me even till today.
SPEAKER_00I thank you so much. You know, I I don't ever, if I'm describing myself, I'll never say kind. I see all the ruggedness of myself. So I really appreciate you saying that. And I have to say, there's certain people that I connect to in church. Now I have social anxieties as well. I am, I've come to find I am an introvert. Like I really like my alone time. And my mom even said, Yeah, when you were two, you had to have your moments by yourself. I said, Okay, so that validates my feelings.
SPEAKER_01Yeah.
SPEAKER_00Um, but when when Camille introduced you to me, I was like, oh babies, I have to take care of them. And I remember, like, well, well, Brandon and I would talk, but yeah, well, we're gonna, I'll take them back to school or take them to the train or you know, whatever after church. Um, I just had a had an affinity for you two for some reason. I just wanted to hug you guys every time I saw you. Um, because life is rough, church can be rough.
SPEAKER_06Yes.
SPEAKER_00And I I so I used to question God all the time, like, why do you have me in church? I don't do the stuff that they say to do.
SPEAKER_06I heard you.
SPEAKER_00I um I wear the jewelry, I wear the makeup, um, I do my I do me. Um, why do you have me here? And he said, because I need you to be you there. I need you to be yourself at church. Um and I've had some conversations that people don't regularly have at church. So I'm like, okay. I've had it, I've had conversations in the bathroom where do you I'm just wondering if my husband's marrying me for me or marrying me because I'm pregnant. People don't talk like that at church. And I said, girl, it's 20, whatever. He don't have to marry you. Yeah, he wants to marry you. We're not in the 1960s. He's and because I'm always me. I'm not putting on airs. Like if Brandon and I were mad at each other at church, you could feel it. It was palpable. Like, I'm not sitting next to you, or I'm putting all these kids in between. Like, I don't I don't have any cut cards.
SPEAKER_06Please know that if I ever have a partner, that's how it's gonna be. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Like, let's not pretend like it was all roses coming to church today. Um, and I feel like we used to have most of our arguments on Sabbath morning, which is wild. But away from that, I'm always myself. So for you to say that I'm kind, I really appreciate you saying that. Yeah, and I don't think that you're just saying it.
SPEAKER_06No.
SPEAKER_00Um I wouldn't because you're pretty straightforward. You're like, I'm not gonna lie to you. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_06And so the next question I was gonna ask is where that kindness, I some would even say that loving kindness comes from, but it sounds like it comes from just being real, being transparent, not only with others, but with yourself.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, I think that I've always had to be my own advocate. Um, and I just have an affinity for people, really a lot for children. But as I've gotten older, it's like pretty much everybody. If I see somebody, I not that you two were in need, but you were students. So I'm like, well, what can I do? God put them in my little village for a reason, like you know. Um, but I think it it might also come from how I was raised. Like my people, because it's not just my parents, but also for my grandmother. You take care of people, yeah. Don't you don't do them dirty. If God places them in your path and you feel this connection, you should cultivate it.
SPEAKER_06It's funny that you say we weren't in need. I can't speak for Dr. Camille, I can speak for me. I was in need.
SPEAKER_00Oh, okay. Okay. Well, maybe I sense that.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, in the sense of I don't really share this story a lot, but Maryland was not the place that I wanted to go. And so there was, I think, a grieving process there. Then I always reference, you know, queer identity. When I tell you I explored, I explored. And when you explore, you fall in, you know, I'm just gonna be a little crass, but you come up against a lot of fuckboys, right? And so at the moment that I met you, there was just a lot that needed to, that needed a hug, I think. And I was at a stage in my life where I wasn't really open to like my family, so there was some isolation there. And so I just have to say thank you again. Just thank you, thank you. I was in need.
SPEAKER_00Well, I have to say also, I think God connects me with queer people. So when I saw you, I was like, oh yeah, we got it. I don't know what's happening, but I love him. Yes, and I had that same connection with my play brother at church. You know, he came in, he was a new believer, and he was gay, and it was obvious. And I was like, I'm gonna be friends with him, and we just connected because so many people are mean and judgmental, yeah. And it's like, you don't, you know, you got stuff. I got stuff, I know y'all got stuff, and you want to act like being a homosexual is what is come on, homosexual, but it's going to keep you out of reach of God, yeah, and he doesn't even say that because you know people like to use the verse. I don't I don't remember where I think it's Philippians, one of the Philippians where these people will not inherit heaven.
SPEAKER_06Kingdom, yes, there's that, there's but it's a whole list, it's a whole list.
SPEAKER_00There's liars, no one wants to talk about what you lie, yeah, okay, yeah, not you, but you know what I mean.
SPEAKER_06And one thing that I always, you know, in my in my little secret player prayer closet, I used to always ask, let's say if I did do the straight route, let's say I did that, you know, knowing how churchy I am, let's say I got married, became a pastor, had two kids, right? The straight route, I would then be a liar. So then I'm out the kingdom anyway.
SPEAKER_00I hear you. That makes sense. And no, I I haven't heard anybody say that before.
SPEAKER_06Oh, that's something that I have been wrestling with since young teens. Not wrestling with. That's the question I have.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
SPEAKER_04Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Just so you know, the whole script kind of just fell out. But let's see if we can get back on track.
SPEAKER_03It's okay.
SPEAKER_06Yes. Happy mail. You talked about it a little, saying how it came from you sending out a devotional and then it becoming a self-published work. What fueled the transition from, hey, I'm sending this out to like my homies, here's a devotional, to boom, I'm gonna self-publish. More people need this.
SPEAKER_00Um I think it was a point in my life I had I had gotten my bachelor's degree finally. And I keep saying finally, but I shouldn't be hard on myself. I thought I I got my bachelor's degree, and I was like, what am I gonna do with this English degree? Nothing. And I was like, let me, I feel like God was just telling me it's time. And then it was so easy. I mean, it's not easy, but it was easy to self-publish through Amazon, even though they take their little cut, it's like a no-brainer. And then so I kept asking God along the way, like what I should do. I've I do that when I make big decisions, I do that when I make little decisions. Um and I was like, well, okay, so okay, I'll call it happy mail because that's what I always called my emails secretly. I say to myself, happy mail, these are happy mails, right? And then, or and it was like a play on words happy email. So it was that too. So, but then when I was looking at the stock pictures that I could choose from and I saw the picture of the mail on the I was like, that's perfect.
SPEAKER_06That's a cute cover, y'all.
SPEAKER_00That sealed it. So I don't know, maybe it was a culmination of you know, graduating, not really doing anything with my degree, having these, having these devotionals for years that had been edited already. All I needed to do was go through and make the edits. Um, and then I said, well, do it. And I was really just being obedient because I I look at it as a ministry. I'm not making a lot of money on this, and I've given too many of them away. Just like, you need this here, you need this here. You know, I'm gonna, I'm gonna give you my book here. Um, but it's been a blessing to me because when people say, Oh, I've read it, I don't read it from front to back. I just I open one randomly and it's always exactly what I needed to read. And I'm like, praise God. Like, yeah, there's nothing that I can say. I'm not even doing it. I didn't make it, it wasn't monthly, it's not a year. There's like 111 or something like that. And um, one of my friends was like, I just feel like you not having dates in there, it takes the pressure off.
SPEAKER_06Yes, yes.
SPEAKER_00And I was like, well, good, because that's me. Like, I'm really like, Well, how do you feel today? Let's do such and such. I there's a side of me that's very hippie, very just go. With the flow. Um, so having rigid things is hard for me to you have to have them in some aspects of life, but yeah, I'm I really like to go with the flow.
SPEAKER_06You know, when I think about your devotional and how I came upon it, again, I just think about God's timing and how wild it is. So when the devotional came out, I was back home doing another wave of schooling. And I remember purchasing it just because it was like, oh, I know Kelly, she's really nice. Let me support. Taking it and just putting it down, and it was collecting dust. I'm gonna be transparent. Yeah.
SPEAKER_00I expect that to happen with many of my friends.
SPEAKER_06Yeah.
SPEAKER_00But thank you for your support.
SPEAKER_06No worries, no worries. But then there came a point in my church journey and my church experience. I was music minister of my church at the time. Um, and then, you know, hating ass hoes down to the church house came upon my Instagram and decided to kind of disperse it throughout the church. Yeah. And you you're my you're we're we're Instagram friends, so you already know what it's giving. Yeah. And so I had this talk with like the elders and the deacons and just a gang of people who not only had access to my Instagram, but had my pictures on their phone, which also felt a little creepy. And so I wound up removing myself from the music minister position. I said, girl, have it, and kept it moving. Now I thought after that moment, of course, there was gonna be a period of grief, but I found myself increasingly feeling distant from the church. I found myself, you know, saying I'm gonna go to church on Sabbath. And when I got there, the church said amen. Consistently. To the point where my mama was just like, So are you actually coming to church or are you just coming to pop your head in?
SPEAKER_00Oh wow.
SPEAKER_06And walk out with me. Yeah. But I will say that during that time, even though I was not at church, when I was at home, there was something in my spirit that was just like, I need to feel connected. I need some spiritual grounding, I need something. And then I found myself looking over at that happy male and just, child, let me see what works for me, right? So just turning to a random page and reading it, turning to a random page and reading it. And in that moment, in that season, I felt so grounded. I felt like I did have a connection with God, even though I wasn't singing up at the at the front of the church, right? Or running things with the music ministry. And so again, it just brought my mind not only back to God, but back to you. And like, I don't know, I just have to say thank you for just so many of these things. And I was wondering, you know, if there's a time that you felt low and felt disconnected from the institution of church and and maybe what kept you grounded and engaged in spiritual practice.
SPEAKER_00Um I think it was the fact that my father told me when I was in college, I was depressed through college when I when I went the first time when you're supposed to go at a certain age.
SPEAKER_05No judgment. We're gonna have to talk about that spirit of judgment, okay?
SPEAKER_00Okay. Um he would call me and be like, Are you praying? I'm like, not really. Do you go to church? No, not really. And he said, God always wants to hear from you, no matter what you're doing. He always wants to hear from you. Sidebar, my father was a a pastor, uh an evangelist, and being a pastor's kid made me run away from theology majors in college. I was like, no, I will never marry a pastor, ever, ever, ever. And you know, I didn't. But I kept that in my mind, what I kept was it's not about your denomination. Um, it's about your connection, your relationship with God. He wants a relationship with you. That's the whole, that's what the Bible is about. That's what, that's why everything points back to Jesus. And when you read the gospels, if you really read it for yourself, so many people don't, you really read it for yourself, it's about relationship.
SPEAKER_06Yes.
SPEAKER_00And I was like, and I'd I'd say all the time, I said, who did Jesus admonish the most?
SPEAKER_06The scribes and church leaders, the church leaders, and that's who so many people aspire to be.
SPEAKER_00And I and I was like, I don't, that's not, I was like, I know I'm never gonna be an elder. I could be an elder, I can pray over people, I can anoint your head with oil, I can anoint my house because God gave that to us. He didn't say only pastors can do this, like you should be able to do these things. Your relationship should be so that you're able. So, and not, and I'm not saying that I am the holy, I'm not, I'm just me with relationship with with God. So, what I did was I just kept that in mind, and that's how I operate. So, um, yes, my lowest point of being feeling disconnected from the church was college, and I think, and then being on the praise team in church and knowing some background stuff and my husband being a church uh leader as well. I'm turned off right now. I'm trying not to be, but I'm like, if we don't go back to church, I'm okay. But then I had to sing for a church service, and they actually um recorded it in the church. And I was like, oh, I remember this feeling. Yes, this is why. This is there's just a different being in the sanctuary is just like it's it's an experience, right? Um, but how what I've taught my kids and what I live by is it's not about any denomination that you're in, it's about your relationship. So I could if the church disbands tomorrow, right? Will you still have a relationship with God or do you just throw everything out? I'm throwing everything out. God is ooh, been so good.
SPEAKER_06Say it.
SPEAKER_00It brought me out of some things, yes, okay, and blessed me, yes, and just loves me when I'm so hard on myself. He's like, girl, if you don't stop being so hard on yourself, like that's the voice. Every time I say something negative, he's like, Girl, you are mine. I'm like, I am, I'm sloppy. He's like, apologize to yourself.
SPEAKER_06And it's so interesting to hear you even just just talk about the blessings, right? And that's not why we have relationships, but they become so apparent when you think about the time that we live in, right? COVID is just running through the streets, civil unrest all over the place, yes, Zoom, and being on Zoom all day, another stressor, and in the Google Classroom, isn't it disrespectful? Right? And at the same time, we've all just been kept, right? Despite the low points, and because yes, we've all experienced low points, but the fact that you and I can be on here talking to each other, it's really not as bad as it could be, right?
SPEAKER_00That's true, that's very true.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, I love hearing you say that you're well, not I love hearing it, but it's my ears picked up, I guess. Um, whatever you want to describe it. But you saying that like you are struggling with kind of like the church dynamics right now, where COVID has kind of shut the doors. The denomination that we're a part of, I'm just gonna shout it out. We're both Seventh-day Adventists, yeah. And there when you think about the last days, yes, a lot of people warn that in the last days the church will be shut up. But they focus a lot on like religious liberty and and freedom to praise God in the way that you like. And I was laughing with a church home girl um a couple months ago, and I was just like, we've been focused all our lives on religious liberty, and God said, I'm gonna do you one different, I'm gonna send COVID and shut the doors anyway.
SPEAKER_00Right, right, because it's not safe, literally, it's not safe for our health.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, so we shut the doors, and now here we are figuring out our relationship on our own. But I will say, I kind of miss some aspects of corporate worship. Like I'm out here streaming whenever Sabbath comes around, but I'm just like, dang, I wish I was up there singing. I wish I was just like in the church house feeling, like you said, that experience. How would you describe that experience?
SPEAKER_00Um, let me give you two examples. So I try to make sure out of experience that I pray for God to use me and for me not to let my humanness get in the way. One time I didn't do that, I had a very bad attitude, and I got up in church and I sang. And it was the most horrible experience because I was like, I shouldn't be up here. My attitude is so nasty. And I God can use anybody, but I know He don't want to use me right now, and He can't use me because I'm so nasty. Like I was just nasty. Um and I vowed never to do that. So I was like, if my spirit's not right, I can't, I can't be on the stage. Um but when when you're when God is using you, so when you're when you're singing praises and you're singing songs of hope and praise and you know, for everyone to sing along, you feel like I always, I I'm not gonna say I always, but very often you just feel the presence of the Holy Spirit. I can't explain that. Um, you can feel it in your body, you can feel it in the atmosphere. Um and I used to very often I'm the loudest one in church during praise or worship, like if even if it's not if I'm in the um the congregation. Um and I used to ask my kids, like, does it embarrass you that I'm like the loudest person in church? They're like, no, we're used to it. Okay, well, I won't worry about it. Um I can't explain the feeling. Like, there's like a can I use the word aura? I don't know. It's it's just uh a vibe. It's a vibe that I just can't explain. It's peace. It's like it's like if peace was magnified and was just radiating out. And I felt that even in an empty, empty sanctuary, it was just like maybe there was no more than 10 people, but we were recording. And when I sat down, I was like, oh, it's just like a your weight, the the weight of the world that you're carrying melts away, and you can just be in communion with God. Um that's what I miss. That's what I miss. Did it happen every week? No. Um, but yes, that is what I miss.
SPEAKER_06Love it. What parts, let's say one day we find a vaccine, the doors of the church open, we get to put on our fancy shoes and and our cute outfits and get back up in the place. What aspects of the church dynamic would you like to see disappear?
SPEAKER_00Hierarchy.
SPEAKER_06Tell us more.
SPEAKER_00Um many times people who hold um office in the church, like let's say, I don't really get this from deaconess and deaconesses, though our deaconesses just sit, it seems. Um growing up, they used to like move around and like take people's kids from them, and I don't see that very much anymore. But like, yes, I know that you're the elder, the the pastor and the first elder, and they're supposed to, I guess we're supposed to give them a some kind of respect, but you should also be personable enough where people don't see you as oh, you're the high, you're the pastor, you're the high priest. It's more like, no, this is my homeboy who leads the church. Yeah, he's he's gonna, he got my back. And so many, I'm not saying that my pastor doesn't have people's backs, but I see it so often it's like, oh, we don't give you this information because we don't have to. We're the we're the pastors. What we're trying to help you run the service. What do you mean?
SPEAKER_06And I feel like when we fuel that hierarchy, it leads to a lot of mess that can happen in the church.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, it it it does. And I I just wish more people were transparent. Yeah, it would make going to church and having relationships with people easier, but like they'd be like, oh, the women's ministry doesn't no, thank you. I'm not gonna go and pretend. Oh, the couples ministry to no, thank you. Because y'all lie, y'all act like everything is good, and we I know it's your husband was in my DMs and I had to tell him to leave me alone. So wow, yes, yeah, yeah. I don't have it, I don't have it. I wish people were more transparent as we begin to wind down.
SPEAKER_06There are people who are probably gonna listen to this episode who may be processing their own church relationship, maybe processing their own church hurt, maybe trying to figure out what their relationship with church, religion, etc. is going to be, you name it. What little happy male or happy nugget do you have for for the people?
SPEAKER_00Sometimes, so church hurt is a big that's a big deal, and that's real, and more often than not, that's not your fault, that's someone else's stuff, right? The hurt that they put on you, that wasn't you, that was someone putting that on you. And so what you have to remember is that God wants you, right? So if if you decide that you're gonna take a break from church, allow God to heal you. So you don't, and God can heal you at church, but if you are a church hurt in a way that let's say you were abused, or you really need to go to therapy, like you need to ask God to guide you to that. Um because I've seen people leave the church and be like, oh, they're this and they're that. And I'm like, who hurt you? Like that doesn't add up to me. Um, and then if you're focused on your relationship with God, you're gonna allow him to use you anywhere. So you're gonna allow him to use you in church, you're gonna be in the grocery store. Yeah, yeah, you're gonna be at work, you're gonna be at Starbucks. Like it's so when you when you realize that it's really not about you, God has you there for other people, it might be a little bit easier to go to church again or consider it or even seek the healing. Some people don't seek healing, and healing, God's not gonna just be like, Well, I'm a I'ma heal you from this, so you can do this. He's gonna ask you, Do you want to be healed? If you're ignoring the question, maybe you'll never heal from that pain because somewhere you're comfortable holding on to it.
SPEAKER_06Wow. Wow, wow, wow, yes.
SPEAKER_00So, so really, really do some, really analyze the why and look and look for him. Like it's so much better to be able to. I don't go to that church anymore, but I go here. Or I don't go to church anymore, but I found this path. God has shown me this, like whatever God is willing, you just have to be open to how He is going to lead you, and that's whether you stay in church or not.
SPEAKER_06Complete the sentence.
SPEAKER_00Happiness is happiness is I think I've used this too much, but peace for me. I'm happy when I'm at peace. I'm just like, ooh, I don't have no drama right here. I have a headache, but I'm happy because I don't, you know, I'm at peace. Your stuff ain't my stuff. My stuff is my stuff. Your stuff is your stuff. Yes, yeah. Peace.
SPEAKER_06I'm so full.
SPEAKER_01This is so good.
SPEAKER_06Okay, we're gonna move into a section of the show, the last bit of the show called Let's Spin the Rose Bottle. So I have spent the entire episode asking you question upon question, getting deep into your business. Now I'm going to return the favor and you can get into mine. You have the chance to ask me one question. It can be juicy, it can be dry, it can be nothing at all, and we'll move on. If you ask something, I'll have to give a response.
SPEAKER_00What advice do you give to a young person that knows that they're not just the regular heterosexual that they've been raised to believe? The social construct that has been placed for them. What advice do you give a child who feels that they're queer and they're just trying to figure it out and they're stressed and depressed about it?
SPEAKER_06So at the beginning of this conversation, I mentioned that when I was younger, one of the questions I used to ask in prayer is people are saying this one thing about my identity. If I choose to live out the exact opposite, I'm a liar. And that doesn't sit well with me. Then I mentioned in this conversation my experience just with the church. Yeah. Take Instagram out of it when I was younger, you know, before I could even think about queer identity. People were thinking about it for me.
SPEAKER_00Right.
SPEAKER_06And that can be really taxing. That can be really draining. It can be really stressful when you see how people talk about queer folks, gay folks. And it took me getting to a place where I focus, as you said, more on relationship. And there is a passage in the Bible that I hold on to that says, you are fearfully and wonderfully made. Not the you that people tell you you need to be, but you.
SPEAKER_00Right. You already.
SPEAKER_06Yeah, you who how you show up. Yeah. There's also a text that says, For I know the plans I have for you. Plans of good, right? For your well-being, not to harm you. So if I'm fearfully and wonderfully made, if you got plans for me that are for my good and not to harm me. Not in the version that people tell me to be, but in the version that I present with, I can be okay with this identity.
SPEAKER_00Okay.
SPEAKER_06Now it may, it may cause people in the church not to want to bang with me. Yeah. It may cause people outside of the church to not want to bang with me. And I think also you need to, when you realize the people who don't want to rock with you, you got to consider the source.
SPEAKER_04Right.
SPEAKER_06Are the what fruit are they bearing? And a lot of the times the people who are coming after you based on your identity, they ain't doing shit. They're not fabulous.
SPEAKER_00Right, right.
SPEAKER_06So do I want to be that or do I want to be who God has blessed me to be from before I was even born? Yeah. And I chose to be who God blessed me to be before I was even born. And if I look at my life, I ain't doing too bad.
SPEAKER_00You're right. You are right. That's amazing. That's great advice.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_05Go back to the word. Go back to the word people try to throw at you. You'll find some gems.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Wow. That's amazing. That's great.
SPEAKER_06Kelly, this was so good.
SPEAKER_00I really enjoyed myself.
SPEAKER_06Me too. I thank you so much for just taking time out of your day to sit with me and to talk to me. Is there anything that you'd like to plug? Your social medias, your your devotional. Happy mail, which can be found on Amazon. I already plugged it for you.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um you don't have to follow me on Instagram. Um actually you can follow Kelly Ray Rights. Uh that's rights W R I T E S. Kelly Ray Wrights and Ray is with an I.
SPEAKER_06So K-E-L-L-I-R-A-I-W-R-I-T-E-S.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_06Call me Akila.
SPEAKER_00Um, yes, you can follow me on Instagram. Um and yes, buy the book.
SPEAKER_06It'll bless you. And it references Dorinda Clark Cole. What else do you need?
SPEAKER_00I love Dorinda.
SPEAKER_06Me too, favorite Clark sister.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Um, and that's Happy Mail, a book of devotionals, because there's another Happy Mail book, but it teaches you how to um send happy mail.
SPEAKER_05Yeah, so get the right one. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Happy Mail, a book of devotionals. It's a turquoise cover. You can't miss it.
SPEAKER_06Yes, it's a cute book with a lot of great gems. Anything else?
SPEAKER_00Um, no.
SPEAKER_06If if you can no, yes, something else. You saw the deeds.
SPEAKER_00Oh I okay, so I am. So I okay, all right, because I'm scared. Okay. So can I tell you the backstory?
SPEAKER_06You can. Absolutely, please.
SPEAKER_00Okay, so I have a girlfriend, my good, good girlfriend. Um, and I was like, Do you I am in a really funky, funky, funky mood? Are there any crystals for that? Because she's into crystals. Um, and she told me African jade and bloodstone. So I looked it up, I looked up the properties of the crystal, and then I happened to look at beads, and I was like, I'm gonna make myself a necklace. And I made myself a necklace of African jade and the bloodstone, and the the bloodstone ones were so tiny I had to use like needle and thread, but I made it. And um when I tell you that it calmed me and centered me, and I was like, I don't know if it's a placebo or not, but I'm not I could be PMSing and wear it and be fine. So uh and I have PMS two weeks out of the month, so you can just imagine what it's like living with me. Sorry for my when I'm in a mood, but yeah, so I started making them and then like I advertise it on my other Instagram page I didn't mention. And I've made a few for a few people, but yeah, so yeah, I guess you could listen rights and DM me and say, hey, what about them beads?
SPEAKER_06And I'm like, oh god, the beads look really cute, and just like Ivy Park, I'm saving up for one. Okay.
SPEAKER_00Yeah, like it's and it it's actually calming to make the beads. I've never done anything like this before, but I'm a creative, I own it now, and I and sometimes if we're we're in too long, I'll be emotional, like easily easy to cry, but not because I'm sad, but because I'm so open to um I guess my feelings.
SPEAKER_06So I'm gonna need to get me one ASAP. Open me up, child. Listen.
SPEAKER_00Let me know when you're ready. Yes, yes. Yeah.
SPEAKER_06Well, y'all, this has been another episode of the Roseanne Thorns podcast. I will see you all next week. Bye. Thank you for listening to Roseanne Thorns, a P Ryan podcast. You can find Roseanne Thorns on Instagram and Twitter at Rose and T Pod. That's R-O-S-E-N. You can find P Ryan on Instagram and Twitter at I M P Ryan. That's I-A-M-P-R-Y-A-N-S-O-S-O-S-O-S-O-S-O-S-I-N-S-I-N-