Rosé + Thorns
Join Dr. P. Ryan and friends in unpacking the highs and lows of life, culture, and relationships—open conversations with no off-limits topics.
Rosé + Thorns
Limitless Opportunities (feat. Dr. Camille)
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There’s something about living in your purpose that affirms your potential and provides you a nuanced perspective of the world. I’m so grateful to my sister-friend (and Married to Medicine cast mate), Dr. Camille, for blessing the podcast with her wisdom and beautiful spirit. Get ready for an amazing episode. 🖤
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How does it feel graduating?
SPEAKER_01Oh my God. It's been a 12-year journey and it's done. Like go. But I'm just thankful and grateful. And I'm just constantly reminded as how good God is, how good my family is, my friends. I'm like, there's no way I could have done it without them. So I'm just grateful.
SPEAKER_02You ready? It's Roseanne Thorns. Hey, love bugs, and welcome to another episode of the Roseanne Thorns podcast. I am P. Ryan and I'm so excited for my guests that I have on here today. We are enjoying a beautiful summer day that feels like spring in quarantine. Um, but nevertheless, everyone, welcome Dr. Camille Cross Cabo. Yay!
SPEAKER_01Thank you so much, Patrick. It is so good to be here with you today. This is over 10 years of friendship in the making. So honored and privileged for the invitation and excited to talk.
SPEAKER_02I am so excited to have you on. I feel like this is about to be an awesome conversation, and you're probably gonna give the people great information. Um, so let's jump into it, yeah? Let's do it. All right, Bill, before actually we jump into it, there's a lot of things kind of going on. Um, we talked off-air about like COVID. We talked about some protests that are happening, or not some, but a lot of protests that are happening. And so one thing that I always do with my friends, like when I haven't seen them for a while, is just do kind of like a temperature check by asking, how's your heart? So, how's your heart?
SPEAKER_01You know, my heart has been heavy. I feel so sad for our people. And it's interesting because right now, this period of my life is a time where many would be celebrating. I'm finishing this long journey of residency and this path through medicine. And so a lot of people I know who are disappointed by the fact that they can't celebrate with graduations. And I'm at a point where I really don't care because I just feel so bad about everything that's going on in the world. Um, but at the same time, I'm just I'm also grateful and trying to appreciate the small things such as my family, the fact that everyone is still safe, no one got sick during this COVID period that I know of. Um, and so just trying to take it day by day and keep myself positive and optimistic, even though you know everything that's going on just seems to just be crazy. It's like every you think every time you think COVID can't get any worse. I mean, that's alright. Anytime you think 2020 can't get any worse.
SPEAKER_02Oh, she says, let me show you.
SPEAKER_01She literally looks at us and is just like, is that a challenge? Exactly, exactly. So just trying to take it day by day.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I hear that. And it's definitely a balance, right? So there's so much to be sad about in this world, but then there's so much in our personal lives, there's so many blessings that come up that we can be joyful about. And I know sometimes like the joy can make you feel like either guilty or make you feel like, okay, this is inappropriate right now. I should be mourning with my community. But I think definitely, as black people, I think I saw this on Twitter. Black joy is resistance.
SPEAKER_00Yeah. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Black joy is protest. Your good times are protest, your bad times are protest. Like, it doesn't have to be this constant state of sadness. I think we've gone through so much, and even in everything that we've gone through, we should still tap into joy. And so we'll get to the celebrations. We're gonna celebrate you today. But before we do that, tell the people about yourself.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Well, there's so many things I can say. I am a proud Christian, I am an African-American woman, I am a wife, I am a budding anesthesiologist. Come on, budding. Proud New Yorker. Okay. Come from humble beginnings. I've just been blessed along this journey. Um, and just hoping to make a change in the world. That's who I am.
SPEAKER_02Yes, that is who you are, and much more. Um, and I know you from undergrad. We met an undergrad. I love our story. I always think about the end. Smile because I was a creeper. One Saturday morning, you and I were on the bus, not knowing that we were both kind of like going to church. I peeped that you had um something that we call a quarterly, which is basically like a church devotional.
SPEAKER_03And so I was like, Hey, you going to church?
SPEAKER_02And ever since that moment, you know, we have just built a friendship. You have, in my head, you're my uh married to medicine castmate. Yep. And you have been witness to so many of what I like to call like good moments and also cringe-worthy moments in my life. So good moments are just like all the good times that we've spent together. The cringe-worthy moments, when I can remember me accidentally spilling juice on a lady at church during the lunch hour.
SPEAKER_00What color was her dress again? It was yellow. And she had the nerve to be like, is that my dress?
SPEAKER_02And her, I just remember you saying, no, it's mine. That was the absolute best. Other cringe moments being, oh my goodness. So you know I like to sip. Yes. And I remember it was, was it moving out day, graduation day, around that time for you? Probably, probably moving out day. Moving out day. And I just remember seeing you in the elevator. You had just gotten your hair done. I was drunk as a skunk, and your family members were there, and I was like, you little Kelly Rowland. Mercy.
SPEAKER_04I forgot about that.
SPEAKER_02I didn't. These are these are the moments that come upon me and I just cringe.
unknownOkay.
SPEAKER_01Well, my family all loves Patrick. We'll make that clear. Oh, thank you.
SPEAKER_00Thank you.
SPEAKER_03Thank you for accepting me.
SPEAKER_02But we have come such a long way. Um, as you mentioned, about 10 years um of this friendship. And I am so excited to kind of be um your friend in this moment because I get to celebrate some of your major accomplishments. One of them being right now is that you are finally out of the schoolhouse. Yeah. And that is a blessing.
SPEAKER_00That is, oh, you have no idea.
SPEAKER_01Oh, training has been long.
SPEAKER_02Yes. And even though it's been long, and I know we're gonna get to the work that you've kind of put into training, yeah. One thing that I can say is when we were in undergrad together, even after undergrad when we did our check-ins and seeing you now, one thing that I've always noticed about you and have just like admired is that it really seemed like you are living a purpose-driven life, right? Like you can just look at somebody and their professional journey, their artistic journey, whatever you want to call it, and you can tell sometimes when it's like, okay, this person is aligned with what they're doing. So even though there's a whole bunch of work uh that you have to kind of invest in this, it in a way you it you make it look easy. Sorry, words, you make it look easy. Yeah. Because you're so aligned.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, yeah. I said it didn't feel that way sometimes.
SPEAKER_02Chow, I'm sure. Can you talk about your journey and just the experiences that led you to like getting where you are? You mentioned humble beginnings, but just tell us your story there.
SPEAKER_01Sure. Um, I would say I could be anyone. I was just very fortunate. There were so many things that aligned nicely for me, having really strong supportive parents, a strong church family, mentors, um, just being given opportunities uh that helped propel me to be in the right place, having a strong network of friends, all of those things sort of came together nicely. Um, I think my interest in medicine started from childhood. So both of my parents are in medicine. My mom's a nurse, my dad is a hospital administrator. And I think when I was uh in fifth grade or so, my dad took me to his hospital and allowed me to shadow a surgeon for a few hours. So that was the first time I was in an operating room. How ironic. That's what I do now every day. Um, and I was like, wow, this is amazing. I love it. But back then I wasn't really a great student in school. I, my first few years of elementary school, I was pretty much a C student. I was made fun of, I was teased for many reasons. I was called a crybaby. And it took moving to a new school, and I had this teacher who just really believed in me. And she would encourage me, she saw potential in me, and I went from being a C student to an A student top of the class consistently. And I think that really just changed the trajectory of my life. And in addition to that, I had a strong church family that really endorsed education, you know, especially coming from that Caribbean background. Yes. And nature, I participated in activities that developed discipline and leadership, um, teamwork, all these skill sets that I think have helped me in my life. And when I was a teenager, I had a doctor come to my church to do a health seminar. He was actually the first black medical doctor that I met. And I was just so impressed. I didn't know any black medical doctors, even growing up in New York, if you can imagine that. And I told him that I was interested in medicine. And um on his final day of the seminar, he presented me with a Bible that was engraved with my name that I still have, and a stethoscope. And he said, I want you to use these things as tools that will help you on this journey. And it was just, it was so impressionable on me, and it really, it really helped me. So I sort of set out in my mind to do medicine in undergrad, and I had a good friend of mine who's actually finishing up her neurology residency right now, also an African-American female, who told me about a program called SMDP. And I think they also did this program. Surely did. And it's essentially a summer program for um medical and dental um prospective students who are from underrepresented minority backgrounds. And where did I do it? At all places, Howard. And it was one of the best experiences of my life. I was just surrounded by um black excellence, and that really set me on the path to where I am today. They had training, they like helped you in the sciences, they taught you how to take the MCAT, which is an exam that we, an entrance exam for medical school, taught you how to write an essay, um, you know, created a community of people that I still network with today to help you on the journey. And so all of those things really played an important role. And so that's how I kind of am where I am today. I ended up doing a research program the summer of my junior year at the medical school where I ended up going. And I like all throughout it, I could see that that was what God had aligned for me. And I couldn't have picked a better institution for college or for medical school and now for residency.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Oh, love that story. And thank you so much for bringing up SMDP. That is a fabulous program for students of color who are looking to make their way into medicine. And you're absolutely right. You do make lifelong friends from there.
SPEAKER_01You do. And I will also say they they usually pay for your room and board and also give you a site if you don't think you have the money to do it. It's covered for you. Absolutely, absolutely.
SPEAKER_02And now in your story, we talk about alignment, we talk about purpose and God kind of like setting your path, but two things I can't brush over mentorship and representation.
SPEAKER_00Yeah.
SPEAKER_02And you know that you would not be where you are without people kind of pouring into you, but then also without you kind of having somewhat of a model of where you could be, right? That black uh medical professional who gave you the stethoscope, excuse me, words and the Bible. How does that impact the way you kind of show up currently in your profession and kind of like paving a path for those to come?
SPEAKER_01I think it's it's a I think the most important thing is for me to keep in mind where I came from and who is helping me get there. I think it can be very easy once you arrive at a certain position in life to forget about the journey and to all who are behind you. And so for me, it's been really important to be a mentor to other young African-American individuals, whether they're interested in medicine or something else and being there as a support, whether that's just for advice, um, whether I can use my position to help, you know, influence them getting into certain programs or things like that, and opening doors for them in the same way that people open doors for me. Um, because I think that part of the legacy is helping, reaching behind you and helping those coming up behind you. Really the key. And then encouraging others who are also in positions of power to do the same thing.
SPEAKER_02Yes, yes. So getting a seat at the table so that you can change the table and make space for more seats.
SPEAKER_00There you go.
SPEAKER_02There you go. Mm-hmm. There you go. Now, when God has aligned your path and made it, you know, relatively clear, despite the work that you've had to put into it, sometimes it can be so easy to just kind of say yes to everything. Right? Especially when you see that modeled, you know, I think of um, what's her name? Shonda Rhymes, year of yes, where she just said yes to everything, whether or not she felt like she deserved it, or whether or not she felt like, you know, she that was a part of her purpose. But how do you discern um things that are related to your purpose? How do you discern things that you're supposed to be aligned with, with things that maybe might take you off the path? Or how have you discerned that?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I mean, that's a great question. Again, I really rely on my Christian faith. That's what grounds me and um trusting in God's guidance in my life and not just saying I trust him, but in behavior, actually relying on him. And I think for me personally, God gives me a piece when I'm doing things that are in alignment with him. That's one end of it. The other end of it is also just common sense, right? Knowing what my ultimate goals are, and then just, you know, thinking about it. Will this action, will this behavior deter me from doing the things that I want to or achieving the things that I want to achieve? So for example, um, I was very focused in undergrad about wanting to go to medical school. And so sometimes that meant I can't go out the way other people went out, or recognizing that I don't have all of the financial resources that other people do. So that meant sacrificing trying to go on a trip so that I can afford to pay for my application fees, things like that, which were just more common sense. And in other ways, I think there were times where God just closed doors that I was trying to pursue, even though I probably shouldn't. So, for example, I really wanted to go to a different school for college, and God opened the door where I got a you know a full scholarship to go to the the college that I ended up going to. And you know, now in retrospect, I look back and I say, Thank you, God. He knew what he was doing. Even though the other school was Ivy League, it was very prestigious, and I think I would have done fine there. But I'm like, God knows what he's doing, and so just trusting him in that.
SPEAKER_02Listen, I remember us having this conversation too in undergrad, and you just kind of reminded me of it because in this space that I'm in now, I also reflect on that, right? I had a different option when it came to my undergrad choice, and I was really, I'm not gonna lie, I was really devastated that I did not go that Ivy League route.
SPEAKER_01Mm-hmm. I was there.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And it like, and I think if I'm gonna be completely real, I think it took the first two years of going to our undergrad for me to kind of just like accept the fact of like, okay, I'm actually here. But when I look back and I look at the loans that I avoided, we talked about loans off air before we started this, and I even look at the opportunities that came from the institution and even just like the growing edges that I um went through, just like the the transformate, the different transformations I went through, the opportunities I received not only professionally but artistically. I'm like, oh yeah, this was yeah, this was where I needed to be.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, and I'll add on to that for me the relationships that I formed. I would probably wouldn't have met you and you all friends that we are still friends to this day. And I think that was only the result of going to our college.
SPEAKER_03Yes. Oh yeah.
SPEAKER_02So full. Now, I unofficially name season one of this podcast the essential work of life and relationships. Yeah. Um, and the reason being is because, you know, this term essential worker has come up. Um, but at the same time, there is essential work that we have to do not only in life, but you know, with ourselves, with those around us. And I was gonna, you know, have you come on, not only talk about your profession, but give some insight into this COVID situation, right? But that was until the events of the past couple weeks when things shifted from COVID to the racial injustice in the world, right? And um, so you've talked about your experience as a black doctor, a black female doctor. Um, you even mentioned another uh black female doctor who's about to become a neurologist, yeah. Yeah. Um, and so I can't be blind to the fact that you have multiple marginalized identities. And Kimberly Crenshaw talks about intersectionality. She coined this term, and it's basically the this idea that your different marginal identities can be compounded to put you at greater risk of further marginalization. But when I think of you, it's like, okay, there's this intersectionality piece where you could be placed at greater risk or you could even experience greater marginalization in various aspects of your life. And you have like on the other end of the spectrum, this identity of doctor, which when and not even not only doctor, you're a budding anesthesiologist, right? So you're even at the higher end of that MD totem pole, right? And so you have kind of like these two juxtaposed identities, yeah. And so I'm wondering thinking about your the different spaces you take up, thinking about your different positions, how are you feeling about this? You know, I asked you how your heart was, but how are you feeling about this social climate currently? Um, and just how you fit into this whole space?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. I mean, I'm just it uh specifically related to police brutality, it's really been hard to see and hear about all of these instances with these young black men that come over and over. I I reached a point where I don't even watch the videos anymore because it just weighs so heavily on my heart. Um and but in some ways I'm grateful for the videos because we all know that these things have been going on for a long period of time. And I think we've reached a tipping point in our country again where we are all coming together and protesting, and I'm so happy to see all types of people from all walks of life coming together and saying, enough is enough, we need to do better. And so that's something that is encouraging to me. It's hard to know whether or not this is gonna result in significant change, but I think that all we can do is try. Um for me personally, keeping all of these things in mind has sort of like affected the way I've chosen to live out my professional journey. Um specifically in terms of where I decided to go to undergrad in medical school and and residency. I specifically looked in urban areas and cities. I didn't look outside of that because I was already aware of the potential for dealing with certain prejudices within the medical system, despite the fact that you would think you're on a level playing field with other people because you've taken the same tests, you've earned the same grades. We're studying the same books together. Um and even with that, you still face microaggressions. I'll give a specific story. When I was in medical school, I was in a small study group with an attending physician. Attending is a physician who's finished all their training, who was our advisor. And I was in the process of transitioning my hair. I used to have a perm, and I was transitioning to natural hair. And for all the sisters out there who've done that, you know how incredibly challenging it is to change your hair. So I was constantly doing my best to like make sure my hair looked presentable. And one day in our study group, my attending made a comment. She said, Camille, you're always changing your hair. She's like, Where do you even find the time to study? And I remember just feeling so embarrassed. She said this comment in front of my my classmates with no qualms. And I was like, all I'm trying to do is take care of myself and make sure I look presentable. And so there's still microaggressions that I've had to face. And so the way I look at it is like I'm just working as hard as I can. To put myself, like you said, um, you want to sit at the table so that you can bring more chairs to the table and invite others in. And so that's sort of been like my mindset. It's like I'm gonna do the best I can and try to reach behind me to help bring other people in and to try to help affect change in a way that's concrete. And and people do it all through different ways, but that's sort of one of the ways for me that um the approach I've taken.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, yeah. Have you, and this may be different because you're like saving lives, right? Um, but have you had the experience, especially in this climate, where um some of your higher ups or some of the people who have helped you or trained you to this point have like reached out to reflect on this moment?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, it's interesting. Now that I look back on it, I did have an experience where, so I was I was rotating at a different hospital, came back to my home institution, and I was on an airway call ship. So I was sitting in a call room, and essentially the someone knocked on the door, and about three of my attendees were at the door, and they're like, hey, let's talk. We want to check on you, see how you're doing. Now, at the time, it didn't even like occur to me that that's probably they were probably checking on me because of what was going on in the news. I just started talking to them about random things because sometimes I almost feel like I compartmentalize my life, and there's certain people that I feel comfortable talking to things about, and others that I don't. Um and looking back on it, I realized that that I that is what I think they were trying to do, and I appreciated that effort on their their part. Um, I can't say I've gotten to a place of comfort where I feel open about I feel open enough to share some of my personal feelings with everyone, but I did appreciate that they tried.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I I can relate to you on that not being fully comfortable, right? And I think you know it's hard to feel comfortable to kind of process how you're feeling in this moment, especially, and I can't speak for your experience, but I think in my experience, especially when you have um endured those microaggressions and sometimes even macroaggressions, yeah. And also when you're not completely sure that those reaching out have the skills to deal with what you throw at them. Right. Right. Like, are you asking me this for me to share and then for you to be like, okay, we ask.
SPEAKER_01Right, right. You're trying to empathize with my experience and what I'm going through.
SPEAKER_02And I can say, you know, the dean of my program reached out to um express her frustrations um and say that she was sorry that I had to witness the killing of black men. And I took that, yeah. And she sent this via email. It was a very, you know, this message was sent by iPhone email. Um but I had to, I took that moment to send her back something a little longer. And I think when we talk about purpose and alignment and just like, you know, God giving you different moments, I was just like, if I don't say something now, I'm never gonna have the chance to say something again. Right. And so I took the moment to share with her and to acknowledge that not only are black men being killed, but black women are being killed, black queer people are being killed, black trans women are being killed, right? Still women. Um and so I wanted to acknowledge that, but then I also wanted to bring up the fact, and I said this in the email, you know, we can talk about people being killed all day long by police, but I think we also need to be accountable for the killing of black spirit in academia. Yeah, yeah. You mentioned coming from humble beginnings, many of, and I like again, another full circle moment. I highlighted for her, I think this is something that a lot of my faculty and staff didn't know. The same area that my institution is um placed in is the same quote unquote hood that I grew up in. So, what a lot of these faculty members know for like, you know, campus alerts and like robbings and XYZ, I knew as, okay, that's a Jamaican store I always went to. Like I went to the school down the street, like you know what I mean? And so I basically like outlined for her, and I said, you know, thank you for reaching out and sharing your frustrations. Yet there have been frustrations that you have voluntarily been blind to for the past five years. So, how do we address that? And I think at that moment, it created kind of an effect because she was willing to try to make change as dean. Or that's what she said. I don't know if the changes are gonna be made.
SPEAKER_01But and so that's and that's the other thing that I really love about this moment. I I just think it's opened up an opportunity for dialogue. I think people who were, I mean, and unfortunately it took something so egregious. Um, but now people are taking a step back and and and wanting and more are more willing to listen and hear. Like, okay, this is one extreme, but there are a lot of other issues that we have, and these are some of the things that we need to address. And so I I really hope that it brings about positive change. I do.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. And when we think of like also, you know, getting that seat at the table to create more spaces, like I think it also highlights this broader theme of that there's different ways to protest. Yes, yes, right. I think so many, you know, for a lot of the people that I've spoken to in this season, it's just like, I want to go out on the streets, but I'm afraid of, you know, catching COVID or something, right? Or like I want to go out on the street, but you know, really my anxiety is not built for going out and protesting. There are different ways that you can make impact. Protesting brings attention to the issue, but when it comes to structural change, when it comes to, you know, c holding people, the powers that be accountable. We all have different areas of the vineyard.
SPEAKER_01We do, we do. And and I and I think that's important. There's so many ways to attack this problem. Um, one of the biggest things is going out to vote. Oh, heard you. Local level, all the way up. It was really discouraging, I know a lot of people have said in 2016 at the turnout from young voters. Um, and you see the result of that in action. And so just as eager as we are to protest, I think exercising our right to vote. Um, the other thing is that um using the um uh positions and powers that we have, whatever that may be, to help other people and give back. The church I grew up in, those people didn't have the most money in the world, but you know, they believed in us, they supported us when we had events, they came out and you know, they clapped, they listened to what we had to say when we gave public speech speak speeches. And now I'm whenever I present at work, I'm told I'm, you know, I was one of the best presenters. And I think that started from church, where people just had a listening ear. And so, whatever, or time to to watch me or to tutor me on a subject. It's just whatever you have to turn around and in and empower someone else, you should do it. And the other thing that I think is really important is raise our children to believe that opportunities are limitless and you can do anything. And I heard someone talking about this earlier. They said, you know, I never actually talked to my child about becoming a judge or becoming a politician. The people that actually enact the change, and it made me sit back and reflect for myself. I mean, I don't have kids yet, but I think that's important. And encouraging our kids to do anything, you know, and not just limit it to a few professions, because you never know how that profession can help make a difference in the world one day.
SPEAKER_02Speak on it. Speak on it. What have been your experiences or what have you witnessed as far as black children being limited or given like a limited message?
SPEAKER_01Yeah, you know, well, again, growing up in a predominantly Caribbean household background. Now, personally, my parents and family were the best. They encouraged me to do whatever it is that I wanted to do. But I just think as a culture, sometimes we limit our children to you have to be a doctor, you have to be a lawyer, you have to be a nurse or a teacher. And when you think about all of the professions that exist, it's really a disservice to us. And I think sometimes, you know, I've seen this happen to friends and family. They end up going down this path because their parents told them to. And like you mentioned before, they realize they are not walking in their purpose. That is not the plan that was intended for them. And then it it leads to a lot of delay because then now they're trying to go back and figure out what exactly is it that I had to do. They've wasted a lot of money because now they have to change majors in college. And so supporting people and whatever that may be. I'll I'll just give this quick example. Yes. I had no idea the wide variety of professions that existed until I pretty much got into medical school. They have respiratory therapists, you know, medical assistants, they have surgical assistants, um, they have PAs, they have NPs. There's just a wide approach to the field of medicine. And I think we have to do a better job of encouraging our kids to really explore all that is to be offered. And you look at people like Bill Gates, who created this brand new industry, you know, the options are limitless.
SPEAKER_02They absolutely are. And I I'm definitely on board with, you know, your idea of showing our children or encouraging the fact that, you know, the opportunities are limitless. I'm wondering too, though, if that's something that comes with increased privilege. Because I'm thinking of just like trying to give those who nurtured us grace. Like they preached medicine, they preached law, they preach medicine and law. Right.
SPEAKER_01Because at the end of the day, they wanted to make sure you could support yourself.
SPEAKER_02Right. And that we maybe didn't repeat the experiences or like re-experience the experiences that they had. And so I wonder if, you know, maybe if they had the privileges to explore, if they would be able to kind of like preach that message, right? And so I'm so in this moment, I'm so grateful that we have gotten to a place where we are in a different space than maybe those who nurtured us so that we can kind of push this message for other um black youth to come.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, no, I completely agree with that. It's all about like the opportunities that are afforded to you, and they just want to make sure our our family, our friends, they just want to make sure that we're secure and we're able to take care of ourselves. And so I think we have to take advantage of the opportunities presented to us. Um and sometimes we don't do that as a community. And so read us. And so when we're faced with them, take advantage of it. You have the clubs at school, the the music programs, all of those things. Get involved.
SPEAKER_02Get involved, yes. Well, listen, I'm about to get involved in your business, okay? Because after we celebrate you for medicine, there's another thing that we have to celebrate you on. And that is you going from Camille Cross to Camille Cross Cabo.
SPEAKER_01Say it again. Say it again.
SPEAKER_02Camille, first of all, excuse me, Dr. Camille Cross Cabo. Okay, you're married now. Oh, yes, I am. Yes, six months in. Nine months now. Oh, nine months. Oh my goodness. Where are you? I know. Hi, where are you? I know. Nine months, almost a year. Now, let me tell you something. This is why I call you my Married to Medicine cast member. So, y'all, Camille sent me this invitation to her wedding, and I'm like, oh well, of course, I'm gonna go, right? Like, I'm here. I don't plan on being at internship. Like, I'm going, right? So she does this in Virginia, and I'm like, okay, the DMV is cute. Like, we're gonna go down and have a good time. I'm gonna fellowship with the Saints. Let me tell y'all, as soon as I parked at the venue, I called my mother and I was like, I'm not in the real world. I am on a Bravo TV set. At a Bravo There is gonna be a casted crew, there's gonna be video. Camille, your wedding was a fairy tale. And you know, I'm not the Marion Kind, so I don't know if I'm ever gonna have one. But if I were to have a wedding, you really set the template.
SPEAKER_01Oh, thank you, Patrick. You know, I it's not about the wedding, it's about the marriage. You really just wanted to have an experience where our friends and family had a great time and they could celebrate with us and feel the love. And let me tell you, that was one of the best days ever. I know it sounds cliche, but oh, we just had a good time.
SPEAKER_02And that experience is what we had, right? It was it just felt so good to celebrate you. It felt so good to just witness the love that you have received, that you have gained, that you have gotten from your partner. It's it's it was everything. It was. It was and so congratulations to you and congratulations to nine months and to all, you know, we talked offline and caught up about all the things that you're doing. Congratulations on everything. Yes. One thing that stuck out to me though, which really, you know, you really are the blueprint. I just have to say your family was going over how you met your your partner and how they came to meet your partner, right? And one theme that kind of was consistent um throughout everyone's testimony, we could say, it was a churchy event, yeah. Was that you really kept your partnership on the low for as long as you could, right? And you even see that on social media because one day I saw you just out and about living your life. The next day you posted an engagement picture, and I was like, wait, what? And I was like, wow, you are really Beyoncé with your business. I took a page out of her book. You really did. And so I'm curious, right? Because that isn't the norm these days. I think everything you know people take for like a tweetable moment or an Instagrammable moment, and it's just like as soon as you shake hands with a potential partner, it's just like, we hear, you hashtag in the last names together, and then you know, a little bit down the road, if it doesn't work out, it's just like, okay, all the pictures disappear, and it's kind of like this back and forth, back and forth, back and forth. I'm curious, what was your reason or motivation behind being so private with your partner?
SPEAKER_01Sure. Um, it kind of goes back to what we were discussing before about knowing your goals and kind of keeping distractions out of the way. You better say it. So my goal was marriage, okay? I was not playing about that. I was, I know that's not for everyone, but for me, that's what I wanted. And I was looking forward to a partnership. I had come out of the very long and just not a great relationship. And I had that experience where it took me a long time to post pictures of this person, and I finally did, and then you know, things turned left essentially and went poorly, and then I had to go back and erase all the pictures. And I was like, you know what? I'm never gonna do that again. Really, it's about protecting myself and protecting our relationship. I didn't want to feel pressure from outside forces to make sure my relationship turned out a certain way because you're stunting for the gram. And so Instagram is a great place. You can share things with, you know, people that you know, people you don't know. But I think it's okay to keep some things to yourself. And that's that's really what it was for me. Um, and it was my so my husband doesn't have really doesn't use social media. So it wasn't, I didn't even get pressure from him. Or I know that happens to some people where the partner posts you and they're like, well, why aren't you posting me? You know? Yeah. So it was a decision I made within myself. But again, it was about protecting me, protecting our relationship until I was sure about it.
SPEAKER_02Looking back, would you say there are any downsides to being so private?
SPEAKER_01You know, so I I I think that you want to make sure that in your partnership, you don't feel like you are being hidden. Now, you don't necessarily need to be displayed on social media to prove that you're not being hidden. However, you want to make sure that you are meeting your partner's close friends and their family, people who will give you insight as to who they are, and they let you know that it just creates an openness within your relationship. Yeah. Um if it's just simply that you're not on social media, no. But don't be a hidden figure in their life. I will say in my previous relationship, my ex had a social media account, but he hid all of the postings. And so you really couldn't see what was going on. And there was a lot of distrust in that relationship, lack of honesty. Come to find out he, you know, was dating someone on the side. And I'm had social media been more open, then I would have known. But at the end of the day, it's not just the social media. You don't want to be a hidden figure in their life. That's kind of how I wrap that up.
SPEAKER_02You better speak a word.
SPEAKER_01Yes. Yeah. It it it touched me. I wanted to touch someone else.
SPEAKER_00Oh, well, it touched me. Okay.
SPEAKER_02Now in this journey, right? I I thank you so much for being so transparent about, you know, going from a relationship that wasn't so good to now going to this relationship that was a lot of times to learn kind of what we want, we sometimes have to experience what we don't want. And so when you were kind of making that transition from one relationship to the other, what were some things that you were very clear that you desired in a partner?
SPEAKER_01Yeah. So some of the things that were baseline for me personally was I wanted someone who's a Christian, who loved God, who was a family person. Um, some things that I took from my last relationship that I wanted to be different. I wanted someone who was going to be open and honest with me, someone who was going to accept me for who I was, who supported me in my endeavors, who was not intimidated by the fact that I was a physician and medicine and had certain professional goals. Um, all of those things were really important. But I also wanted someone who challenged me, who didn't just, you know, let me go and do whatever I wanted. They held me accountable. Um and and to top it all off was my friend, you know, simply my friend, someone that I could have fun with and enjoy life with. Um, and I said I'm not going to compromise on those standards. So that's what I did.
SPEAKER_02Come on and don't compromise. Come on, earth the kid. No, compromise for who? Compromise for what?
SPEAKER_01Exactly. It leads to much pain and sorrow, living testimony. It's not worth your time.
SPEAKER_02So then what advice kind of to wrap this up? And again, thank you so much because in just a few short moments, you really spoke a heavy word. What advice would you give to someone who, you know, really desires partnership and would like to find someone, but really has no, maybe doesn't have a blueprint of a healthy relationship, maybe not know where to start in finding one, maybe doesn't know like how to do the work in themselves before they even branch out to a partner. What word would you give?
SPEAKER_01I would really I think first you have to look inwardly to yourself. Are you content with yourself as a person? Are you happy in your singlehood? I think being single can be a special and important time in your life as well, and making sure you are whole as a person before bringing another person into that. Because I think some people will search for a partner to find someone who will make them happy, and your partner will never make you happy. And you want to make sure you are good within yourself. And I think defining those principles that are important. I know, sorry, because I'm a Christian. Pastor Mike Todd has a series right now going on talking about relationships. He had one a few years ago, and now he's doing the part two version. I highly recommend that series. Even if you're not a Christian, he gives some very practical tools. Essentially, he talks about ripping up your list. Now, obviously, you want to have some foundational principles, but sometimes the person that you want is not the right person for you. You need to find the person that you need. And so keep in touch with those basic principles foundations when looking for a partner is important. And knowing your goals and don't compromise on it. So if your goal is marriage, don't play around with people who are dating you just for fun. They're a waste of your time. I'm about to close my laptop. Whatever that those goals are things that may be, don't compromise on them. The right person will be there, they will respect the things that you want and desire and really complete you in a partnership.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Mercy. Okay, yes. And Pastor Mike Todd. I might have to check that out because my list is a good three pages.
SPEAKER_01He said, rip up your list. No, allow God to determine what it is. He's like, it's not what you want, it's what you need. Well, God, what I need. Tell me what I need. He will, it is such a good series. I highly, highly recommend it.
SPEAKER_02Okay. Yes. Well, I'm gonna have to check that out. Yeah. Wrap up this interview, Camille, or your portion of the interview. Complete this sentence. Happiness is.
SPEAKER_01Happiness is. Um So I might usually I would say joy is because so for me sometimes I think of happiness as fluctuating with the external environment around you.
SPEAKER_02Get me together.
SPEAKER_01To me is something that is underlying despite anything that's going on. Um and to me, joy is this peaceful assurance in God's guidance in the details of my life. And despite what's going on around me, I know that ultimately he's in control. And in the end, everything will work out for my good.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Yes. You know what? He has.
SPEAKER_02You you blessed me. You blessed me.
SPEAKER_00Pat you blessed me all the time. Thank you.
SPEAKER_02Yes. Well, you know, this show is called Rose and Thorns. And so we are going to move into a segment called Spin the Rose Bottle.
SPEAKER_01Okay. Okay.
SPEAKER_02So we've spent the entire time with me asking you questions. You now have the opportunity to ask me qu a question. It can be dry, it can be juicy, or you can opt to not, you can, you know, choose not to ask me a question. But I have to answer.
SPEAKER_01Oh, this is wonderful. I think I'll fall, you know, the meter somewhere down the middle. Okay, okay. If you could have dinner with one person, whether dead or alive, who would it be and why? Dinner. Yeah.
SPEAKER_02Okay, not just interview. Okay, who do I want to break bread with? You know what? As of right now, can I choose two people? Sure, go for it. I know a lot of people don't see it for these two, but I like to study people and I like to gain information to, you know, be just as successful. So I would sit and have dinner with Oprah and Gail King. Oh, I love First of all, I know that they're a good Kiki.
SPEAKER_00Yes, yes, yes.
SPEAKER_02I recently learned that Miss Oprah loves tequila. Really? Yes. Forget the tea. So I would like, I yeah, and her garden is fire, and I love gardening. So I would love to break bread with those two to laugh, have a good time, but then also to learn the ins and outs of the media game. Um they're doing it. Oh, and Michelle Obama just came to my mind too. Maybe I can maybe a three. It can be the four of us.
SPEAKER_00I think your life would be made after that. Yes, be coming. I have nothing else to do in this life. Yeah. But I've had dinner with the three.
SPEAKER_03Yes. And just had a good the three aunties.
SPEAKER_00Yes.
SPEAKER_03The supreme aunties.
SPEAKER_00Yes. Oh, that would be fantastic.
SPEAKER_02That was a fabulous question. I appreciate you for asking that. And this has been another episode of Rose and Thorns. Do you have any final things to say to the people?
SPEAKER_01Yes. Well, I just again want to publicly affirm Patrick. He is such a good friend. Um, so grateful for everything over the last 10 years. So proud of you as he's going on to finish this like terminal degrees, moving and doing amazing things. I'm excited for you and your podcast. Everyone, continue to support. And just thank you so much for having me today.
SPEAKER_02Oh, thank you for being on. This really just made my heart so full. Thank you for just like the words that you spoke. Oh, hopefully, you know, the listeners will be just as touched as I have been. And thank you for being such a fabulous friend. I don't know what my days would be like if I had not met you. You really are an important person to my life. Um, so thank you, thank you, thank you. Welcome, Patrick. And guys, thank you for listening. This has been another episode of Roseanne Thorns. I'll see you next time. Bye. Thank you for listening to Roseanne Thorns, a P Ryan podcast. You can find Rose and Thorns on Instagram and Twitter at Rose and T Pod. That's R-O-S-E-N-T-P-O-D. And you can find P Ryan on Instagram and Twitter at I M P Ryan. That's I-A-M-P-R-Y-A-N.